The 15-25-35 guideline

HeyMcFlyHeyMcFly Red Chipper Posts: 5 ✭✭
edited March 4 in General Concepts
Hi All,

First RCP post here :-)

Going through some pre flop fundamentals and I need some help with something called the 15-25-35 method as I've never encountered it.

When implementing this guideline...

Are we primarily concerned with whether or not our own stack is in fact the effective stack?

Or do we just run the numbers based on who in the hand has the effective stack?

Also, should this only be implemented between Hero and ONE Villain or can it be utilised in multiway pre-flop pots?

I'm aware this is just a general guideline and isn't something we should be dependent upon but I'm just trying to wrap my head around the concept.

Any clarification would be much appreciated. Thanks for all the help.

Martin

Comments

  • LeChiffreLeChiffre NetherlandsRed Chipper Posts: 483 ✭✭✭
    edited March 4
    Welcome!

    Heads-up it doesn't matter if you are the effective stack or your opponent is. All that matters is what the effective stack is. This is in cashgames only of course, where losing your stack is OK. In tournaments it generally matters who the effective stack is because that person is at risk to go bust.

    Multiway it gets trickier. Obviously you want to ensure you can get your investment back 15, 25 or 35 times the times you do hit, but since you are playing multiple opponents with different stack sizes, it might be harder to evaluate. It becomes more of an inexact science (not saying in heads-up situation it's exact but at least you have a somewhat proper metric).

    If the open raiser (the person with the strongest range) is deep enough I generally don't mind what the stacks are of other players in the hand -- though of course: the more the better. If the open raiser is not deep enough I really need help from the other stacks. How many other players you need to be in the hand and at which stack sizes is I think too hard to answer. One more player might be enough if he's deep too, whereas three more players might still not be enough if their stacks aren't deep enough.

    Hope that helps
  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 2,094 ✭✭✭✭
    HeyMcFly wrote: »
    Are we primarily concerned with whether or not our own stack is in fact the effective stack?

    Or do we just run the numbers based on who in the hand has the effective stack?

    Use the effective stack.

    We don't care whose stack is defining the eff. stack, this doesn't play any role in our calculation.
    HeyMcFly wrote: »
    Also, should this only be implemented between Hero and ONE Villain or can it be utilised in multiway pre-flop pots?
    MW, you then have several eff. stacks. Here is an example

    Hero: 200$
    V1: 80$
    V2: 500$

    Eff. stack MW is 80$. But then you've a "side" eff. stack between Hero and V2, of 200 (or 120$ remaining).

    When all stacks are more and less the same, this is gives you great odds to call with marginal hands / set mining hands. But when stack sizes are pretty different (like in this example), and esp. if a short stack is included, calculation turn a bit more complicated (bc of side pots). There, you've to be smarter and think about how to take advantage of the situation - how do you adapt your strategy to this specific situation (for ex. relative position, stack leverage, Villain mistake propensity, etc.).
  • HeyMcFlyHeyMcFly Red Chipper Posts: 5 ✭✭
    @Red @LeChiffre

    Thanks for clearing it all up for me. I really was confused.

    It makes sense now that I’ve read through both responses a couple of times.

    But I know that math isn't my strongest element so I am going to have to put in a lot of practice hands off-table until it all sinks in.

    I am going to try my best to target the pre-flop raiser if I can and preferably in position.

    I can also see how multiway it’s going to be a loooot trickier.

    SplitSuit mentions the dangers of entering into low SPR pots with short-stacked opponent (esp if they are prone to shoving like a lot of rec players are).

    So this gives me one more item to keep an eye on.

    Really appreciate the clarification from both you guys.

    Cheers.

    Martin

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