Letting go of aces on bad board

HilbertSpaceHilbertSpace Red Chipper Posts: 3 ✭✭
First post, so I hope I don't miss out on any info and make this coherent.

1/3 NL underground game nyc, effective stack is me ~400$, there's a mandatory button straddle for $10. I'm in sb with aces first to act. I raise to $30 and get called by cutoff and button. Button is very good aggressive regular capable of hand reading, cutoff is unknown. Pot is ~$100.

Flop comes JQK rainbow.
My thoughts are that this is in general a bad board for me as it hit a callers range against an utg open e.g. broadways, so they have a lot of two pair combos and I don't (I play fairly tight and only open AQ+ utg in this lineup) plus all the pair plus straight draws. I do have all the sets in my range, but my actual hand is pretty weak. I was a little tilted in this hand and think I made a bad decision to lead out for $50 into $100 and get called in two spots.

Pot~250. Turn comes 8 completing rainbow. I check, cutoff checks, buttons fires $200 into 250$ pot. I tank and end up making a very bad shove for about 80 more. Cut off folds. Button shows JJ. This guy is aggressive, so I thought he might 3 bet jacks preflop, but I suppose against my utg open, he made the right decision to flat. I suspected he had two pair, or pair with a draw or AK (although I block this). Clearly a very bad call in hindsight, but I leveled myself into calling against a thinking aggressive player who is capable of semi bluffing when weakness is shown.

So my questions are:
1. Should I be check calling this flop?
2. Should I check fold the turn in this situation after leading the flop? Any advice would be appreciated.

Many Thanks!


  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 2,027 -
    Something I've been learning from Ross Glover* is that, on these 3-broadway boards, if our range doesn't include the nuts, we should usually check flop OOP.

    It's a little weird here because the straddle has squished it to a 40bb game, but my guess is that's what the machines would like even HU.

    One other point, knowing you'll be OOP for the rest of the hand I might have opened bigger.

    *In fact he just confirmed this. Bunch of insomniacs in Vegas I guess.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • jfarrow13jfarrow13 Red Chipper Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭✭
    1. Gamekat already pointed out the fact that the straddle and positioning warrants sizing up here in order to mitigate positional deficit.
    2. I really don't like a limp-raise normally, BUT I think this may be a good candidate given player descriptions, and you can make the call about game dynamic.
    The notes about the limp raise is that I think you must defer when you are in the SB to a limp strategy with all your hands. In addition, you will have to strengthen your range, and the limp raise strategy simply protects the weaker portions of your range, but plays well against an aggressive opponent who see's that money in the middle that the mandatory $10 straddle puts in and wants to attack to collect it. The nice thing about this strategy is that it will really take out a big portion of his game, and make anyone think twice about raising you out of the SB. HOWEVER, this does mean you gotta either adopt an limp 3-bet (almost 3-bet shove strategy), which should look something like limping range will be AJ-A10s), your gonna have to limp shove like all AK, 2 combos of AQs, 2 combos of KQs, KK-10s (flat 50% JJ and 10's), flat red AA. So basically your gonna call about mmmm 65% and shove 35%, likely picking up if you have 100 BB's, you'll pick up around 33% of your stack, shoving 35 of you range, ect.

    BACK TO THE HAND- Yeah, I mean listen, this board calls for a 20-25% pot bet or nothing. This board is good for you range but bad for your hand. A 20-25% pot sizing attacks crappy PP who may decide to bluff you later, but you block AQ and AK, 2 hands you wanna get value from. Your praying they have J10s, but thats 3 combos left. Lotta combos of broadways, it's just a bad spot to bet period. Your not getting value from worse, and when you get called your almost certainly behind, praying for a 10 to bail you out. Nobody is floating you with 77 thinking "ooo ya I'ma take it away from him later". MW pots like this on boards this wet, people are gonna play extremely honestly. So, while checking does open you up to be potentially bluffed by the aggro BU who may have a wider range, a 20-25% bet here accomplishes all of your goals of folding out weak SC and low PP, and prevents you from behind bluffed. Save 1/2 pots for your wacky A10, or KK and QQ. I know you have KK and QQ in your range, so if you wanna turn AA into a bluff, jam the turn, and prob still get called by JJ but at least you have a chance of making him make a hero fold.

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