Straddle shrinks my stack to 40bbs

In The DarkIn The Dark Red Chipper Posts: 186 ✭✭
edited March 11 in Live Poker Hands
8 handed 1-2 with a $5 UTG straddle, my typical Strip game with five or so tourists. I sit with $210 but thanks to an action player it's short stack poker now. My image is solid after an hour of play. I've won two pots without a showdown. I'm well dressed and older, an image I'm learning to manage to good effect.

Three folds then a tourist limps in with a $120 stack. Folds to me on the button with :QD: :QH: and I raise to $20. The SB has a $800 stack and has been quiet so far having amassed his chips before my arrival. I assume from his play he could be a serious amateur or a pro. He calls after a ten second pause. I'm comfortable putting him on a solid range since he's OOP, probably in the 5% area, minus AA, KK, QQ but I just don't know enough to be sure. All others fold and we see a HU Flop ($45) = :8D: :8C: :3D:

SB checks. I'm prepared to commit with this hand and bet out $30. SB raises to $60. His sizing confuses me a bit. If it's a donkey making a min raise it's usually doom. His min raise isn't an 8. Maybe 88 but not A8. I shove and it's a $130 raise into a $165 pot. I want to deny any equity to AK and maybe get a call from JJ, TT, 99, 77. I'm content to go broke to AA, KK.

Thoughts appreciated.

Comments

  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 1,830 ✭✭✭✭
    His sizing confuses me a bit. If it's a donkey making a min raise it's usually doom. His min raise isn't an 8. Maybe 88 but not A8.
    Why not 8X ? Why not T8s ? 98s ? 87s ? A8s ? All these hands shall be there.
    And what about 33 ?

    Now the big question is: what else does he c-r with ? Does he have JdTd (and any other FD ? 99 ? A3 ?

    If V never c-r before AND uses a min bet sizing, I'd be pretty cautious.

    Esp. if SB not very active and sitting with a big stack: it could be a tight passive massively value oriented player. Not the one we can throw QQ against.
    I shove and it's a $130 raise into a $165 pot. I want to deny any equity to AK and maybe get a call from JJ, TT, 99, 77. I'm content to go broke to AA, KK.
    Again, here shoving isn't really what I like, esp. when we are IP (we just kill our - even if little - positional advantage).
    If V is bluffing (despite this not that great sizing), by shoving you allow V to play perfectly and fold all his junk and call with all his value hands - maybe only hands which beats you or have great equity against you. All the contrary, you want him to keep his range as wide as possible - so you have to let him keep firing himself.

    Finally again, QQ could be an easy fold depending on the range you assign to V. But here, you discarded all the top of his range, which makes it a call. But I really don't see why V would have you crush often with 8x and 33 here.
  • MichaelBMichaelB Red Chipper Posts: 139 ✭✭
    edited March 11
    I try not to decipher why people make the bet sizes they make unless I've got good notes on a player's tendencies.

    There are arguments here for shoving or just calling. If you shove, you most likely lose all the hands you're in front of except the flush draws he's clearly willing to get it in with. Is there a reason why he wouldn't 3bet JJ against a button raise? Or TT for that matter. But let's say he's still got 77, 99 and TT in his range, he might call a shove on that flop, but he probably won't. More to the point, if he didn't 3bet those hands pre, what the chance he's going to x-r them on the flop?

    However, I've seen people do this with small pairs or broadway just hoping they can get you to fold because that flop is so unlikely to have improved you, or at the very least, they're hoping to define your range. Then there are the aforementioned flush draw hands. Vs a button own, Ax diamonds could feasibly raise here for value.

    Lastly though, there's no way you can discount an 8 off the bat like that. As previously pointed out, there are so many combos including an 8 that can call in the SB like that, and unlikely as it is that they have one of those on this flop, it's not outside the realm of possibility. He could easily be wanting to build a pot, but not fold out your broadway hands or small pairs. Ditto for 33, which is always the best hand, but also highly vulnerable.

    On balance, considering I'm on the button, meaning my hand is extremely underrepped, I'm fine with shoving the flop for two reasons. 1) all the hands they're screwing around with for a min click will be giving up on the turn unless they improve to a hand that beats me, and 2) I want to have shoves here with flush draws myself.
  • In The DarkIn The Dark Red Chipper Posts: 186 ✭✭
    Red wrote: »
    His sizing confuses me a bit. If it's a donkey making a min raise it's usually doom. His min raise isn't an 8. Maybe 88 but not A8.
    Why not 8X ? Why not T8s ? 98s ? 87s ? A8s ? All these hands shall be there.
    And what about 33 ?

    Any thinking player (and this one might be) doesn't play PF for an SPR=5 with small pairs and suited spec hands AND OOP.

    I know I won't. It's losing poker.
  • MichaelBMichaelB Red Chipper Posts: 139 ✭✭
    "8 handed 1-2 with a $5 UTG straddle, my typical Strip game with five or so tourists."
  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 4,538 ✭✭✭✭✭
    All things considered I'm willing to go broke here. (There is really $53 in the pot - not a big deal but does drop the SPR by .6 to 3.6). This is really what shortstacked poker is about - big cards and getting it in early with the best. As long as he's willing to play this game all night long, I'm willing to pay off his pocket 3s and trip 8s and AA occasionally.

    I wouldn't say the hand is "extremely underrepped" because you played it perfectly consistently with the hand you actually have. If your opponent underestimates you, that's a different story.

    Any decent player knows short stack poker means early shoves, so I don't think shoving here is going to be scaring away all the hands you beat. I have a very hard time seeing 99 or TT or even :KD: :JD: folding here after minraising. In fact it would be a mistake for him to fold :KD: :JD: even if you exposed your hand first.
  • EazzyEazzy Red Chipper Posts: 936 ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 14
    Your willing to go with the hand

    His min raise could be an 8 but it also could be a pair wanting to see where he s at....

    Just call dont give him the info he wants

    If he bets turn call he may feel tt or 77 is good now

    Its never a flush d r aw ir ak...well almost never..call...if turn goes check through and a diamond does no come shove river..let him think you missed the draw...if draw comes then bet small

    Note what his short stacked min raise means...

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