Playing too scared?? lost Value

Onix1708Onix1708 Pune, IndiaRed Chipper Posts: 99 ✭✭
Decently standard Game, On the Looser side. 5 handed
Stakes 5/10 (Indian Rupees)
Stacks
MP (Hero) 987
CO 1270
Btn 1000
SB (V1) 1971
BB (V2) 511
Preflop
Hero Has :KD: :JD:
Hero Raises 30
V1 Calls
V2 Calls

Flop :2S: :6S: :KH:
Pot 90
V1 Checks
V2 Checks
Hero Checks

Turn :4D:
Pot 90
V1 Checks
V2 Bets 30
Hero calls
V1 calls

River :TS:
Pot 180
V1 Checks
V2 Checks
Hero Checks
Hero wins 180
V1 Shows :KS: :9D: V2 Shows :AH: :TC:


Felt fine as i played it. Came up in review, i felt i missed value.
But i believe i decided to keep pot small on flop as i had position,
and lose lesser in case i m up against K with better kicker.

Also V1 had shown bluffs on flush Boards when he had air, He bluffed and tried to rep flush on boards that had 3 suited cards (especially in Bloated pots).
Was i playing Too scared???
Also turn bet was too small, Should i have raised ?? could i get value of worse hands??
At river i didnt beat enough combos for value bet that could call a bet, so checked.

Your opinion if such line will lose a lot of value in long run???
Also given the texture what should be correct Sizing???

Comments

  • Jordan PowerJordan Power Red Chipper Posts: 406 ✭✭✭
    The obvious question would be why no cbet on the flop?
  • Onix1708Onix1708 Pune, IndiaRed Chipper Posts: 99 ✭✭
    The obvious question would be why no cbet on the flop?

    Not so sure on what to answer here. Precisely why i posted this. With C bet, i was bloating up pot and always expecting a call from V1.
    Also couldnt figure a lot of hands i could get value from, Maybe KT-K8 and Spades draws.
    V1 agreesive tendencies probably scared me from c bet as i wanted to have a showdown with my TpGk. But many turns could have been worse so i thought of keeping pot small.
    Felt C bet couldnt fold V1 tho get rid of V2.
  • Jordan PowerJordan Power Red Chipper Posts: 406 ✭✭✭
    Well if a lot of turns could be bad, wouldn't we want to increase the percentage of the time that we take the pot down there and charge V more for seeing one of those potentially bad cards?

    I would be cbetting here. V doesn't know you just have top pair good kicker. You can rep KQ, AK, KK, AA here as well as good draws.
  • Onix1708Onix1708 Pune, IndiaRed Chipper Posts: 99 ✭✭
    Well if a lot of turns could be bad, wouldn't we want to increase the percentage of the time that we take the pot down there and charge V more for seeing one of those potentially bad cards?

    I would be cbetting here. V doesn't know you just have top pair good kicker. You can rep KQ, AK, KK, AA here as well as good draws.

    Awesome thought process. Thanks a ton. Will try to think that way in similar situation.
    Thanks a ton @Jordan Power
    How About Bet Sizing here for C Bet??
  • Jordan PowerJordan Power Red Chipper Posts: 406 ✭✭✭
    I think probably about 2/3 here. Maybe a tad above. Want to charge draws as much as they'll pay since they usually don't get there. Sometimes it can be rough though since KQ and AK won't ALWAYS be 3 bet, you could be outkicked already. But I wouldn't worry about that too too much.
  • Onix1708Onix1708 Pune, IndiaRed Chipper Posts: 99 ✭✭
    So if i go more than 2/3 here and V1 Reraises here or V2 Jams, Is it a fold???
    Could easily make Such a move with Spade Draws and out kicked pairs and sets.
    Probably thinking too scared
  • Jordan PowerJordan Power Red Chipper Posts: 406 ✭✭✭
    Well if you really think V would take this action with all of:

    1) Sets
    2) Draws
    3) Worse pairs than you currently have

    You probably have to call. But you can look at this from a combos perspective and see if against the reasonable combos V could do this with whether you have enough equity to call. So if we can stipulate that the 1 remaining combo of KK is not in V range (b/c it would have been 3 bet most likely pre flop), there are 6 combos of sets, which of course beat us.

    In terms of worse kings, I find it odd that V could be raising with a king worse than yours here but if that is the case, perhaps we use KT and K9 for those? So there's 16 combos of those hands. However, I think we have to consider the combos of better kings, too. I would remove AK because I think it gets 3 bet here, but KQ will typically be in play IMO, or not 3 bet enough to discount it completely. So that's 8 combos, there going into the "beats our hand" category.

    Now draws... This will be a broader category with no information about V. There's going to be a ton of combos of draws here. Based on a decent range I put in for V he could have 28 flush combos. But he might not x/r all of them. I think it more likely just his strong draws get raised. That would be any nut flush draw (9 combos) and any second nut flush draw + top pair (4 combos, 3 of which you are currently ahead of or tied with). I am discounting straight draws for simplicity but it is not inconceivably V has a gutter here.

    So if you're wondering whether you should call, should V raise/jam, if we take this proposition based upon what you've suggested you come up with:

    Combos that beat us currently: 14
    Combos that we beat currently: 37

    So based on this, you're ahead of the majority of the range V could do this with. Now, take this with a grain of salt, because I think V raising with K9 or KT is unlikely, so I would be hesitant to include these 16 combos (which would bring the tally down to just 21 combos we currently beat).

    So that doesn't answer "should we call a raise" necessarily because it would depend on the size of the raise and how much equity we need to continue profitably.
  • Onix1708Onix1708 Pune, IndiaRed Chipper Posts: 99 ✭✭
    @Jordan Power that is a fantastic write up. m very glad u shared your insight. i will post 2 more KJ hands i played today in similar spots, those r up for review as soon as i finish my session.
    spoiler alert, stacked of nd lost both
  • Jordan PowerJordan Power Red Chipper Posts: 406 ✭✭✭
    I think you would do better to not give away the results. It can taint the feedback you get. I would limit your posts to where you think the crucial decision is.

    Also, keep in mind, that you can play a hand flawlessly and get stacked, the same way as you can make the worst decisions on each street and stack someone else. Don't focus on the results.

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