Rules Question: Mucking Out of Turn

Keith BrandtKeith Brandt Red Chipper Posts: 19 ✭✭
You're on the money bubble of a live tournament. The bully stack has been beating up on middle stacks while giving the shortest stacks a free pass. This is standard bubble procedure for a bully stack.
The action folds to the bully in the small blind, who completes instead of raises because the short stack is in the big blind. The big blind checks his option.
The flop and turn go check/check, check/check. On the river the bully mucks his hand instead of checking.
Is that legal? Is it ethical?
Would it be any different if the bully had limped in from another seat and then mucks his hand after the short stack in the big blind checks?
What if the bully mucks his hand in position but out of turn?

Comments

  • Doug HullDoug Hull RCP Coach Posts: 1,705 -
    On the river the bully mucks his hand instead of checking.

    Only need to show hands on all-ins. This is as far as possible from an all-in at showdown. He just gave you a freeroll since you could have the nut low here and win.
    Would it be any different if the bully had limped in from another seat and then mucks his hand after the short stack in the big blind checks?

    Same thing
    What if the bully mucks his hand in position but out of turn?

    Same thing

    He is giving you a gift for no reason. Clearly not collusion. Collusion is the only reason that all-ins need to be shown at showdown.

    It is minorly stupid to the EV of his somewhat random bad hand to your somewhat random bad hand.

    Co-founder Red Chip Poker,
    Author Poker Plays You Can Use
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  • MTTheroMTThero Red Chipper Posts: 22 ✭✭
    There is also a concept in STT SNG's when there is 4 left. If you are the big stack just abusing the 2 middle stacks on the bubble, giving the small stack a free pass at stealing your blind when he shoves will likely increase your future EV of allowing the short stack to survive so that the medium stacks cannot fight back without danger of busting before the short stack.

    I remember watching Jonathan Little folding a 2:1 pot odds call from the short stack when he was in the BB just to allow the short stack to survive.

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