Need Help Before I lose my BR. I m Dropping Buy ins Very Very Fast.

Onix1708Onix1708 Pune, IndiaRed Chipper Posts: 99 ✭✭
Hi,
I Had a BR on $156 on march 31st.
Post that i have played 14k hands on NL5 dropped to $107.
i shifted down to NL2 FR at $107
i have come down to $90 in 4k hands.
i m lost, i have no confidence. my graph has never seen green.
i tried playing tight but everytime i m all in my opponent shows nuts.
i feel like i m complaining, but in those about 17k hands i m running 14 BI under Ev.
I m really scared and under confident.
i will share Whatever Information required but please help.
At rate i m losing currently, i might lose my BR by the end of next week.
i might probably be the worst player on 888 network.

Comments

  • ROI RUINERROI RUINER Red Chipper Posts: 126 ✭✭
    Drop and stay at the lowest possible limit. I would also play TAG poker with emphasis on position. Take bluffing out of your ranges right now. Just play ABC poker. Go online and find a tight aggressive preflop chart somewhere. Live by it like your life depended on it.

    Poker is crawl, walk, run and that is translated to learn the rules of the game, learn to play TAG, learn to play LAG.

    You may just not be good at poker right now. That is ok. No one starts out a good player, well a small percentage do but bad is a great starting point.

    Become intimate with the fold button. If you were losing your BR slowly your leak would probably be folding too much but you are losing yours quickly so your leak is probably calling too much.

    Don't worry about bluff catching. At the micros most players don't bluff enough anyway.

    Try doing Core (again if you done it once).

    Post hands you weren't sure about. Post as many as you can. Even if no one is responding keep posting them. Then look through them and try to analyze them yourself.

    Forgive yourself for losing whatever part of your BR you did. It's ok. Read about Pro's downswings. You'll feel better seeing how much they've lost. lol.

    Be honest with yourself about where you are in Poker skill. You can't improve on a make believe point in progression. You have to start where you are. If you suck you suck. A sucky player needs to start with the basics.

    Don't worry. I suck too. I just don't lose as much as I used to. My mistakes are probably different than yours (tilt will take my BR in 5 hands when it gets me good enough).

    Meanwhile try to enjoy the journey. Most bad players will never improve because they aren't taking the time to invest in themselves by asking for help as you are.
  • Onix1708Onix1708 Pune, IndiaRed Chipper Posts: 99 ✭✭
    im at lowest limit possible. NL2. trust me if there was a limit lower, i would have been there.
    i understand the charts but my biggest pots lost are postflop coolers ( Maybe bad play on my end) like Set over Set etc.
  • MichaelBMichaelB Red Chipper Posts: 211 ✭✭✭
    I don't care how much you've won or how much you know, EVERY poker player who hits a rough patch will take some kind of hit to their confidence. I get it, if you haven't been a winning player in the past, it's very hard to know if the path you're on is the one which will lead you out of the woods.

    But even though it's so hard to see it now in your current state of mind, you do need to remember that periods of run-bad are a real phenomena, but more importantly, every great poker player out there is only great because they failed, again and again and again, and used those dark periods to learn from and grow as players.
  • Onix1708Onix1708 Pune, IndiaRed Chipper Posts: 99 ✭✭
    MichaelB wrote: »
    I don't care how much you've won or how much you know, EVERY poker player who hits a rough patch will take some kind of hit to their confidence. I get it, if you haven't been a winning player in the past, it's very hard to know if the path you're on is the one which will lead you out of the woods.

    But even though it's so hard to see it now in your current state of mind, you do need to remember that periods of run-bad are a real phenomena, but more importantly, every great poker player out there is only great because they failed, again and again and again, and used those dark periods to learn from and grow as players.

    i dont think i know much. i m definitely not a winning player at any stake over decent sample.
  • Onix1708Onix1708 Pune, IndiaRed Chipper Posts: 99 ✭✭
  • Onix1708Onix1708 Pune, IndiaRed Chipper Posts: 99 ✭✭
    shared my data. any feedback is important
  • Onix1708Onix1708 Pune, IndiaRed Chipper Posts: 99 ✭✭
    please let me know if any more stats are required, i will provide it immediately.
  • MichaelBMichaelB Red Chipper Posts: 211 ✭✭✭
    Give us any stats you've got.. VPIP, 3bet etc
  • Onix1708Onix1708 Pune, IndiaRed Chipper Posts: 99 ✭✭
    MichaelB wrote: »
    Give us any stats you've got.. VPIP, 3bet etc

    sure
  • Onix1708Onix1708 Pune, IndiaRed Chipper Posts: 99 ✭✭
  • MichaelBMichaelB Red Chipper Posts: 211 ✭✭✭
    edited April 4
    Full disclosure, I haven't played online seriously since 2012, so I'm no doubt a little rusty on these things, but just off the top of my head, it looks like you're entering too many pots, and too many of those are just calls. For what I presume is a loose passive game, you're better off being more selective in my opinion. I'd be aiming for my VPIP to be sitting around the high teens with a PFR of 14.6.

    You could try just cutting out everything but JJ+ and AQ+ from the first 3 seats.
  • Onix1708Onix1708 Pune, IndiaRed Chipper Posts: 99 ✭✭
    MichaelB wrote: »
    Full disclosure, I haven't played online seriously since 2012, so I'm no doubt a little rusty on these things, but just off the top of my head, it looks like you're entering too many pots, and too many of those are just calls. For what I presume is a loose passive game, you're better off being more selective in my opinion. I'd be aiming for my VPIP to be sitting around the high teens with a PFR of 14.6.

    You could try just cutting out everything but JJ+ and AQ+ from the first 3 seats.

    5nl is 6 max stats. 2nl is 9max stats. I will play 2nl till I have BR to move up( if it happens). Does the advice go for 6 max or 9 max?
  • MichaelBMichaelB Red Chipper Posts: 211 ✭✭✭
    I saw FR up top so I assumed you're playing 9max. In general though, I do know that you can stop a lot of bleeding right away by just straight up avoiding playing out of position with anything but premiums.
  • Onix1708Onix1708 Pune, IndiaRed Chipper Posts: 99 ✭✭
    MichaelB wrote: »
    I saw FR up top so I assumed you're playing 9max. In general though, I do know that you can stop a lot of bleeding right away by just straight up avoiding playing out of position with anything but premiums.

    so basically i should play a very tight range for now???? JJ+ and AQ+???
    Please explain a little more.
    Should i just call them in Opened post or 3 bet them( since m playing so nitty, would it not be too difficult to get action?)
    another concern i something i have faced way too often,
    i open with a premium, get a caller or two, face a jam and see 2p+.
    i m not able to fold overpairs somehow.
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 2,500 -
    Just getting an overview of all this, I think I'd recommend taking a few days off from playing. Either use that time for a bit of studying or, perhaps better, don't think about poker at all for a few days. Nearly everybody underestimates how their mental state can undermine their results.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • Onix1708Onix1708 Pune, IndiaRed Chipper Posts: 99 ✭✭
  • MichaelBMichaelB Red Chipper Posts: 211 ✭✭✭
    edited April 4
    Onix1708 wrote: »
    MichaelB wrote: »
    I saw FR up top so I assumed you're playing 9max. In general though, I do know that you can stop a lot of bleeding right away by just straight up avoiding playing out of position with anything but premiums.

    so basically i should play a very tight range for now???? JJ+ and AQ+???
    Please explain a little more.
    Should i just call them in Opened post or 3 bet them( since m playing so nitty, would it not be too difficult to get action?)
    another concern i something i have faced way too often,
    i open with a premium, get a caller or two, face a jam and see 2p+.
    i m not able to fold overpairs somehow.

    Not knowing any of the leaks in your game, I was merely suggesting that when playing Full Ring, you may be able to stop a lot of bleeding if you severely restrict the number of hands you play from the first 3 seats. This is about reducing the amount of time you're stuck playing out of position. But whatever range you decide on, you should still employ an aggressive approach.

    Looking from your slow but steadily declining graph, it seems to me like you might need to rebuild your approach to the game from the ground up, and extricating yourself from marginal, difficult situations may be a good way to begin that process.

    And yeah, take a good break. Even 4-6 buyins lost is enough for me to take some time off and look back over that period to see if I should've done things differently.
  • Onix1708Onix1708 Pune, IndiaRed Chipper Posts: 99 ✭✭
    MichaelB wrote: »
    Onix1708 wrote: »
    MichaelB wrote: »
    I saw FR up top so I assumed you're playing 9max. In general though, I do know that you can stop a lot of bleeding right away by just straight up avoiding playing out of position with anything but premiums.

    so basically i should play a very tight range for now???? JJ+ and AQ+???
    Please explain a little more.
    Should i just call them in Opened post or 3 bet them( since m playing so nitty, would it not be too difficult to get action?)
    another concern i something i have faced way too often,
    i open with a premium, get a caller or two, face a jam and see 2p+.
    i m not able to fold overpairs somehow.

    Not knowing any of the leaks in your game, I was merely suggesting that when playing Full Ring, you may be able to stop a lot of bleeding if you severely restrict the number of hands you play from the first 3 seats. This is about reducing the amount of time you're stuck playing out of position. But whatever range you decide on, you should still employ an aggressive approach.

    Looking from your slow but steadily declining graph, it seems to me like you might need to rebuild your approach to the game from the ground up, and extricating yourself from marginal, difficult situations may be a good way to begin that process.

    And yeah, take a good break. Even 4-6 buyins lost is enough for me to take some time off and look back over that period to see if I should've done things differently.
    Slow??? Thats since april 1st. lost 4000bb in 3 days.
    Yes i need to work on my game from ground up.
    I thought i was running really bad, But as i m going through my database and filters, i have realised that i have played bad.
    I focused on volume to even variance or get my true stats.
    It still need help, but calling OOP and calling a lot in general was a losing play.
    Also my Saw Showdown is net negative, Which means i m not making best hands often enough ( Implying Poor hand reading skills).
    I might be Too passive with made hands and Too bluffy with air.
    All prima facia judgements will analyzing my database.
  • Onix1708Onix1708 Pune, IndiaRed Chipper Posts: 99 ✭✭
    Interestingly, On Indian sites i have a slightly breakeven Graph on smallest stake, but i get crushed on slight better stakes.
    Might be because of weaker pool. 888 pool seems more disciplined.
    I guess my initial pool has had me Develop some Bad habbits of Chasing draws too much, Bluffing too much, too passive etc etc.
  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 2,150 ✭✭✭✭
    When I read you're a losing player at the lowest stakes, it's a hint for me that you may not handle the basics of poker.
    I'd advise you to leave the poker tables and spend some quality hours studying - if my hint is right - "ABC Poker".
  • Onix1708Onix1708 Pune, IndiaRed Chipper Posts: 99 ✭✭
    Red wrote: »
    When I read you're a losing player at the lowest stakes, it's a hint for me that you may not handle the basics of poker.
    I'd advise you to leave the poker tables and spend some quality hours studying - if my hint is right - "ABC Poker".
    Your hint is absolutely right. I don't understand why I win small pots ND end up losing big ones.
    My number of winning sessions is like 1 in 15.
    Fair to assume I run pretty good in those 1 in 15.
    I play 6 tables to put in volume and average around 4k+ hands a day( at least).
    So going ahead what should be my way ahead???
    Also I guess I tend to lose preflop discipline and maybe postflop discipline when I play like only 1 or 2 tables, but I guess when I m fundamtally weak player, maybe reducing volume will reduce the speed of losses and hence give me time to get better faster???
    I m on Core lvl 2 and I finished each session with min score of 80%. Seems like I get theory but the practice aspect of it doesn't seem to come along that easy ( or maybe I m wrong in assuming I get theory).
    At this point I m so lost.

  • U_TurnU_Turn Las VegasRed Chipper Posts: 44 ✭✭
    How can you truly focus and internalize what you’re learning while playing six tables?

    I suggest playing one table with complete, laser-like focus for the entire session. No TV. No music. No distractions.

    It will seem slow. Perhaps it will be boring, but if you really want to learn this game it shouldn’t be.
  • Onix1708Onix1708 Pune, IndiaRed Chipper Posts: 99 ✭✭
    Well I guess I play 6 out of fear, I thought I ran bad, wen clearly I play bad. Good point to start at 1 table and move up to more as results go in ur favour. Of course no movies, but no music too???
    Slow is okay for now.
  • U_TurnU_Turn Las VegasRed Chipper Posts: 44 ✭✭
    Onix1708 wrote: »
    Well I guess I play 6 out of fear, I thought I ran bad, wen clearly I play bad. Good point to start at 1 table and move up to more as results go in ur favour. Of course no movies, but no music too???
    Slow is okay for now.
    I know, I know...no music sounds so extreme. If that concerns you, try very short sessions at first without it. For me, music eventually becomes distracting. Maybe for you it won't be distracting. I thought the same thing, but here's what happens:

    First, if music is on, you'll still use a very small part of your brain power to just process the noise and understand that it's music.

    Second, playing one table will be slow, so you'll start to use a little more brain power on the music and a little less brain power on the poker.

    Third, a song will come on that you really like. You start bobbing your head and maybe singing along a little bit. Now half your brain power is on music and half is on poker. You've started playing the poker on autopilot and you're not truly thinking about everything you need to be thinking about.
  • ROI RUINERROI RUINER Red Chipper Posts: 126 ✭✭
    My bb/100 is sooooo much higher 2 tabling than 4 tabling. I’m not great at multi tasking and I also feel that I am pretty good at finding exploits so I like to watch things like players bet sizes then seeing them showdown or if someone fires quickly in some situations and slowly in others. Play 1 or 2 tables so you can focus.

    Also if you lose set over set it’s variance. You call a Nit all in with TPTK and he has a set it’s not knowing your opponent.

    You got the most important ingredient in that you want to be good. Make sure you are learning from your bad plays and be honest with yourself about when a play is bad. Posting that JTo hand shows you are capable of bad play. Not a put down. Just being brutally honest to help. Go through your database and find those spots. You have plenty of examples with the loses you’ve taken.

    Take time to learn the math as well. Tons of videos on that. Sometimes the right play loses money.
  • DoubleBarrelDoubleBarrel Hudson Valley, NYRed Chipper Posts: 870 ✭✭✭
    Omg...how is the redline the best line :random
  • DoubleBarrelDoubleBarrel Hudson Valley, NYRed Chipper Posts: 870 ✭✭✭
    edited April 7
    Onix1708 wrote: »
    Red wrote: »
    When I read you're a losing player at the lowest stakes, it's a hint for me that you may not handle the basics of poker.
    I'd advise you to leave the poker tables and spend some quality hours studying - if my hint is right - "ABC Poker".
    Your hint is absolutely right. I don't understand why I win small pots ND end up losing big ones.
    My number of winning sessions is like 1 in 15.
    Fair to assume I run pretty good in those 1 in 15.
    I play 6 tables to put in volume and average around 4k+ hands a day( at least).
    So going ahead what should be my way ahead???
    Also I guess I tend to lose preflop discipline and maybe postflop discipline when I play like only 1 or 2 tables, but I guess when I m fundamtally weak player, maybe reducing volume will reduce the speed of losses and hence give me time to get better faster???
    I m on Core lvl 2 and I finished each session with min score of 80%. Seems like I get theory but the practice aspect of it doesn't seem to come along that easy ( or maybe I m wrong in assuming I get theory).
    At this point I m so lost.

    - You don't understand why you win small pots and lose big ones: Because your opponents are outplaying you and on a level above you right now. You're not playing poker. You're gambling and villain is literally setting the house odds against you. At 2nl and 4nl, you're over complicating your game and leaking like crazy. You want to tighten up and play tight ranges preflop right now but you want to play your big hands, draws, *and* bluffs aggressively postflop. There's only 2-4$ in a 100bb stack so you have to plan the hand out and say to yourself basically "where are we going with this"? What hands will you happily GII with on the flop? How will you size your bet to accomplish that? Would it be better to check and let villain bet first? You can't just play hands, hope to hit the board nice, and win money. James calls this slot machine poker and that's exactly what it is and what almost all losing micros players are doing. You need to be IP, with a tight range, and playing draws and hit flops aggressively, looking for a range advantage, and then getting the money in. Calling and hoping to hit your draws leaves you in a spot where by the time you *do* hit it, villain knows and won't pay you off. He literally isn't letting you win a big pot and you're not putting him in a position to lose a big pot.
  • DoubleBarrelDoubleBarrel Hudson Valley, NYRed Chipper Posts: 870 ✭✭✭
    The other thing is this: Does $20-40 mean anything to you? If it doesn't well then sit down and play thousands of hands of 2nlz (zoom). Thousands. If you lose it all, you lose it all...but you won't. Just put the money on the site, and don't think about money again and play poker. See what happens, gain experience, pay attention to the other players, specifically the hands that you're not in anymore, and then review your sessions. Post hands here, study the math of the game. I mean, quite quickly the bleeding will stop.
  • Onix1708Onix1708 Pune, IndiaRed Chipper Posts: 99 ✭✭
    Joseph F wrote: »
    The other thing is this: Does $20-40 mean anything to you? If it doesn't well then sit down and play thousands of hands of 2nlz (zoom). Thousands. If you lose it all, you lose it all...but you won't. Just put the money on the site, and don't think about money again and play poker. See what happens, gain experience, pay attention to the other players, specifically the hands that you're not in anymore, and then review your sessions. Post hands here, study the math of the game. I mean, quite quickly the bleeding will stop.

    $20/40 is investment to gain experience is the way I look at it. That's how I look at it. It will take ur advice but unfortunately I have to play reg tables on 888 as stars.com doesn't work in India and hence no zoom.
  • Onix1708Onix1708 Pune, IndiaRed Chipper Posts: 99 ✭✭
    Joseph F wrote: »
    Onix1708 wrote: »
    Red wrote: »
    When I read you're a losing player at the lowest stakes, it's a hint for me that you may not handle the basics of poker.
    I'd advise you to leave the poker tables and spend some quality hours studying - if my hint is right - "ABC Poker".
    Your hint is absolutely right. I don't understand why I win small pots ND end up losing big ones.
    My number of winning sessions is like 1 in 15.
    Fair to assume I run pretty good in those 1 in 15.
    I play 6 tables to put in volume and average around 4k+ hands a day( at least).
    So going ahead what should be my way ahead???
    Also I guess I tend to lose preflop discipline and maybe postflop discipline when I play like only 1 or 2 tables, but I guess when I m fundamtally weak player, maybe reducing volume will reduce the speed of losses and hence give me time to get better faster???
    I m on Core lvl 2 and I finished each session with min score of 80%. Seems like I get theory but the practice aspect of it doesn't seem to come along that easy ( or maybe I m wrong in assuming I get theory).
    At this point I m so lost.

    - You don't understand why you win small pots and lose big ones: Because your opponents are outplaying you and on a level above you right now. You're not playing poker. You're gambling and villain is literally setting the house odds against you. At 2nl and 4nl, you're over complicating your game and leaking like crazy. You want to tighten up and play tight ranges preflop right now but you want to play your big hands, draws, *and* bluffs aggressively postflop. There's only 2-4$ in a 100bb stack so you have to plan the hand out and say to yourself basically "where are we going with this"? What hands will you happily GII with on the flop? How will you size your bet to accomplish that? Would it be better to check and let villain bet first? You can't just play hands, hope to hit the board nice, and win money. James calls this slot machine poker and that's exactly what it is and what almost all losing micros players are doing. You need to be IP, with a tight range, and playing draws and hit flops aggressively, looking for a range advantage, and then getting the money in. Calling and hoping to hit your draws leaves you in a spot where by the time you *do* hit it, villain knows and won't pay you off. He literally isn't letting you win a big pot and you're not putting him in a position to lose a big pot.

    Thanks a ton @Joseph F . Noted duly and will work on it.

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