$1/2 $100 max bet spread limit Set mining 9 handeed

SixthStreetSixthStreet Red Chipper Posts: 260 ✭✭
UTG ($250) opens for $10
hero MP($195) call :4h:4s
BB ($300) calls
pot $31
flop :4d:3s:8c
UTG bet $17
Hero makes $34
BB snap calls, UTG folds
pot $110
turn :2c
BB check
Hero bet $60
Bb raises max $60 + $100
pot $336
worst part just as I choose to be I had feeling straight got there.
so lets say I can only win with full house. Did I pot commit myself with big turn bet?
with 10 outs and only $87 left.
rule of 42 i have 20% equity. 25% would be my percentage of pot.


  • CASEY MCASEY M Red Chipper Posts: 168 ✭✭
    I’d spend some time looking at the bet sizing. Why are we min raising the flop? Our turn bet is ok imo, but i think I’m
    Going a bit bigger.

    With less than 100bb eff, i don’t think we can be too concerned about getting it in with second set.
  • SixthStreetSixthStreet Red Chipper Posts: 260 ✭✭
    Yes I also raised bet size question why this size? What size is better +ev and what does this size accomplish. I did think it was big enough to Squeeze BB and get value to mid over pairs to board. So say $45-$50 flop bet probably was more the size that would of worked.
  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There are so many problems with raises, expressed a million times in this forum, like this it's not even possible to summarize it in a quick post. It goes to the heart of poker theory, which, if you understand it, can both simultaneously allow for it yet not recommend it. This freedom, in a game of effectively infinite options, is probably why so many players employ things like it at the lowest stakes - just think of your last game at 1/2 - yet do any of them ever move up and still bring this same range composition to their new level? Not really, and perhaps that is all most aspiring players need to know.
  • SixthStreetSixthStreet Red Chipper Posts: 260 ✭✭
    So even questioning my own thought of a bigger raise size. Why would it be better? I wanted value out of hand if I made big bet to just fold it through don't make sense. I think more of my thought that I didn't put into hand was when BB called that bet on this board. What is his calling range here? The :2c fits this flop better than a BW card. So if I would of taken 10 seconds of thought into that turn card. I believe checking back the turn is best. Allow free draw to boat, or for him to catch a card that would get me more value. If he hit a straight on turn I probably would be calling a smaller bet on river from him than my turn bet was.
    Mentally I feel I just put the aggression on high instead of thinking.
  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It is hard to evaluate the action when it makes little sense. When you min raise, you forbid yourself from profitably raising draws much, draws that are nicely balanced with big hands like your set of fours. So you rarely in theory and never in practice have 56 or a5 here, or backdoor club draws on the other shoe, wheras your opponent always can. This creates problems.

    Yet it goes even deeper. Even if you only, and even successfully, rely on image or having perceived bluffs, the minraise trends to break one of the central paradigms of no limit and big bet games: nut hands want to get all the chips in the middle. By targeting the weakest portions of your opponents' ranges, the min raise sets up conditions where all the chips not only can not go in, they allow highly +ev peels that also encourage the scenario where when they do go in, they go in bad.

    This isn't the road to go down.
  • SullySully Red Chipper Posts: 780 ✭✭✭
    So even questioning my own thought of a bigger raise size. Why would it be better? I wanted value out of hand if I made big bet to just fold it through don't make sense. .

    To add to what @persuadeo said

    IMO, players concentrate too much on getting value when they have a good hand instead of thinking how they will be playing their whole range, which includes value hands and a LOT of bluffs, over 1000 hands.

    So consistently plan your bets sizes to accomplish what you want for value AND bluff

    What is the best value when you have the goods? Villain's whole stack

    What is the hardest for villain to defend against when you are bluffing? When villain's stack is threatened

    I use these two thoughts as my guide for sizing. We never really know how a villain will respond to a big bet. Because we really have no idea what villain has at that moment or what villain is thinking at that moment

    Our sizing, as part of a strategy, needs to do what we want MOST of the time and at the end of those 1000 hands we should be in pretty good shape
  • SixthStreetSixthStreet Red Chipper Posts: 260 ✭✭
    So reading what you guys said. Makes me look in mirror and realize all i did was play reactive poker. I seen hit my set put more money in pot.

    So to come up with proper bet sizing I need better thought process while in live action.
    So I would announce raise. $30 pot + $17 bet + $17 my call= $64
    I have $160 behind. So 2/3 PSB $64 x .66= $40
    Now to answer what does this size accomplish?
    Well if it folds out I bet $40 to win $104 not bad outcome.
    If I get called by one player now $144 pot with me having $120 behind allowing it to go all in on turn. Which in turn guarantees I get to see full equity of hand by seeing river card.
    This line takes away the Villains ability to check raise me on turn. If he is paying attention to my stack he sees no matter the card on the turn it is going in. He might even allow me to play perfect and him being passive throughout hand and :2c hit on turn he might just move all in fearing if he checks I might just check back and now he wants stacks to get in. Was at table long enough if he did that it means only a hand stronger than mine. This group of guys to much folding and their bluffs almost don't exist.

    As for my bluffs here. Help me what I could be bluffing here with?

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