Raising JJ to $20 OOP over 4 that call a $5 straddle.

NTD12NTD12 Red Chipper Posts: 41 ✭✭
edited April 30 in Live Poker Hands
I wish I had taken better notes but hoping for some feedback anyway.

Stacks
H = 450
V1 = ~130
V2 = ~100
V3 = ~250-300

1/2 NL =

$5 straddle = About I think 4 or 5 players call and I'm in the small blind with :Jc :Jh .
I raise to $20. BB calls and 2 other middle position players call.

Flop (~$85) :Jd :Td :Ks

I bet $60 and the BB puts the rest in for $106 total. The 2 MP players fold and I obviously call and I think you all know what he has.

Thoughts? Or is it just a cooler? I think I played it correctly. If anything I think my preflop raise could have been bigger but I'm not sure that would have changed the outcome.

Thanks

Oh and I'm 100% sure on the suits. I know the board had 2 suits on it I just don't remember what they were or if I had the J of that suit or not. I don't think it changes much though. Or does it?

Just looking for a little feedback

Comments

  • Doug HullDoug Hull RCP Coach Posts: 1,740 -
    edited April 30
    You have the 4th best hand and a short stack. It totally does not matter what he had.

    The big question, when $20 is a pretty standard open raise in $2-$5, why in the world did you raise 4-5 limpers to $20 over a $5 straddle. That is the problem in this hand. I would have made it more like $20 + (4*$5) for $40-$50 to go.

    Do you want to go five ways to the flop OOP in a bloated pot with JJ, because raising to $20 is how you do that.

    Also, edited the title to be more meaningful than "JJ"
    Co-founder Red Chip Poker,
    Author Poker Plays You Can Use
    Author Poker Workbook for Math Geeks
  • NTD12NTD12 Red Chipper Posts: 41 ✭✭
    Thank you Doug on both things.

    I thought that was where my mistake was on this hand but wanted confirmation.

    Not sure it would have changed the final outcome though as V had AQ suited. It's possible he might have folded but not sure. I know the other 2 would have folded.
  • adamzerneradamzerner Las VegasRed Chipper Posts: 55 ✭✭
    edited April 30
    I think that you can raise much bigger preflop. By raising to $20, you're giving everyone great pot odds and are almost certainly getting all calls. The first player needs to put in $15 to win about $25. And after each player calls, the pot odds get better and better. I'd raise to something like $40 here. That is a better price, and if they all fold, picking up all that dead money OOP isn't a bad thing at all.

    Once he shoves, because it's only for "a little bit more", I think that means his range is wider. If you guys were super deep stacked with like $600 behind or something and he shoved the flop, then I suppose you could be pretty confident that he has the straight or KK, because shoving that big with two pair or even TT is pretty unlikely at 1/2. But since it's just "a little bit more" here, I could even see something like AK or KQ. That, plus the great price, means you definitely have to call. Actually, the price alone is worth a call, because you have outs to a boat vs. the straight.
    If anything I think my preflop raise could have been bigger but I'm not sure that would have changed the outcome.
    I'm sure you know this but I want to emphasize it anyway - your preflop raise could have been bigger, and whether or not that changes the outcome is irrelevant. The question is just whether it is the right decision given what you knew before the flop.
    Oh and I'm 100% sure on the suits. I know the board had 2 suits on it I just don't remember what they were or if I had the J of that suit or not. I don't think it changes much though. Or does it?
    It could matter a little because if you had the J of the suit it'd block some flush draws, which means they have less bluffs, but I don't think that's too big a deal, because there aren't too many Jx combos of flush draws. If you had the ace of the suit, that's a much bigger deal, because it blocks more flush draws and people prefer to bluff with the nut flush draw rather than a weaker flush draw.
  • Michael EMichael E Red Chipper Posts: 121 ✭✭
    Agree with Doug. You can open to $20 if nobody has entered the Pot...once they you get 4 limpers...Im adding $5 for every limper as my standard.
    1 limper - $25
    2 - $30
    3- $35
    4-$40
    I might even go $50 like im Buying it.

    Other than that...standard cooler. Never folding the flop with those stacks and that pot.

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