Aces vs Kings Preflop

Poker20Poker20 Red Chipper Posts: 5 ✭✭
I need some feedback. I was playing in $100 buyin tourny. 106 entrees and 23 people left in the tourny. I am sitting at 25 BB stack in Big blind Blinds at 2000/1000 200 Ante. I come up with pocket Kings in the Big Blind. Early position raises 3 BB and then folds to a guy in middle position and raises to 7 and a half BB 15000 chips. Then in the small blind a loose Asian guy (thats how i perceived him) goes all in. I snap call with no thought with the pocket Kings. Everyone else folds. The board runs out all low cards and i get knocked out of the tournament. I think now that i should of thought about it and put him on Aces and made the big fold to stay alive in the tournament. How should i analyze this hand? chalk it up as a bad beat? or feel like i should of been able to make the elite fold and stay alive in the tournament? I mean what else would of he had in this spot? I feel like i fell in love with the kings. Any feed back would help thank!

Comments

  • osirus0830osirus0830 Red Chipper Posts: 62 ✭✭
    You had 25bb? It's a cooler.
  • AlpineCurtAlpineCurt Red Chipper Posts: 48 ✭✭
    edited May 1
    25BB deep late in a tournament with pocket kinds facing a shove from a loose player? All I'm thinking about is Vegas and the f***ing Mirage. Your kings will just sometimes run into aces. The biggest lesson to learn here is to handle and accept these situations gracefully. It won't be the last time it happens.
  • Poker20Poker20 Red Chipper Posts: 5 ✭✭
    Sounds like you faced a similar situation in a higher stakes situation. I understand this happens and it wont be the last, but once i got to thinking about it on my drive home i thought maybe i could of used a little table talk instead of snap calling and getting a read on him. Obviously very few people can lay down pocket kings, but looking back at it i think it may have been possible. I think i need to start thinking about each an every situation just a little longer, unless i have the nuts.
  • Poker20Poker20 Red Chipper Posts: 5 ✭✭
    edited May 1
    I wish i could of gotten away from the cooler. lol
  • Warrington_1Warrington_1 Red Chipper Posts: 27 ✭✭
    Is table talk allowed where you play. If they follow WSOP rules you cant and the dealer should call the floor. Crap rule that needs to go away. I could be wrong. They seem to bring it back and take it away every other year
  • AlpineCurtAlpineCurt Red Chipper Posts: 48 ✭✭
    Let it go. I know easier said than done, especially if you're not used to it, but just shake it off. Learning to accept this kind of variance and that getting coolered is part of the game and will help you grow as a player. In fact, if you don't get coolered from time to time, you're likely making a big strategic mistake.
  • Poker20Poker20 Red Chipper Posts: 5 ✭✭
    Thanks for the advice! Much appreciated!
  • Michael EMichael E Red Chipper Posts: 121 ✭✭
    Poker20 wrote: »
    Thanks for the advice! Much appreciated!

    Like you said...just take your time and call.
    Snap calling with AA or KK doesn't make anyone an extra special poker player, although one would think it does.
    (unless you limp trap - snap a shove BVB 3-way and lose to A2o)
  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 4,638 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Poker20 wrote: »
    I need some feedback. I was playing in $100 buyin tourny. 106 entrees and 23 people left in the tourny. I am sitting at 25 BB stack in Big blind Blinds at 2000/1000 200 Ante.

    So one thing to take into account is that tournaments are even further removed from cash games than simply the number of big blinds you have. In a cash game 25 BB is obviously a short stack. In your situation, you need another means to evaluate. Assuming there are 8 people at your table, then you could start with Dan Harrington's M value, which in your case is about 10, so you're in what he calls the Orange Zone (next up from Red) which means you have little poker left to play other than all in. If you read Arnold Snyder, you're in even more desperate trouble than Harrington thinks. So you need to double up soon. You're not going to get big pairs that often.

    But having said all that, there is something to be said for your opponent stack sizes, not just yours, because they're playing each other as well. If you were the one shoving, then it's pretty obvious kings need to go in. But if you have 3 opponents with 200BB each, and there is a 2-bet, 3-bet, and 4-bet in front of you, and these are tight OMC types that you might often find in cash games, and you're next to act, then it reverts to cash game strategy and you can sometimes be pretty sure that he has AA. Remember they're playing against each other so far, not you.

    This is not your spot though. Your opponent, according to you, is on the loose side, and he 3-bet, not 4-bet. If you can't risk this situation with your chip stack, then you're simply playing too tight and will blind out too often or play too long with a stack size that fails to utilize your skills.
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 2,013 -
    Minor technical observation about Jeff's comments above. It's true Snyder had alarm bells going off at higher M than Harrington, but everyone else has moved in the opposite direction. To a large extent this simply reflects the smaller opens that have developed since HoH.

    One of our planned crash courses for this year is on short-stacked play in tournaments. I will provide an update on that when I have one.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 4,638 ✭✭✭✭✭
    TheGameKat wrote: »
    To a large extent this simply reflects the smaller opens that have developed since HoH.

    One of our planned crash courses for this year is on short-stacked play in tournaments. I will provide an update on that when I have one.

    That makes sense, and I haven't really kept up with the latest tournament theory vis a vis very small raise sizes, other than their mere existence.

  • cxy123cxy123 Red Chipper Posts: 49 ✭✭
    edited May 6
    I dont play a lot of tournaments but pretty sure you are supposed to fall in love with KK - so kudos on that.
  • CASEY MCASEY M Red Chipper Posts: 134 ✭✭
    I folded KK once preflop. And it was the wrong time to do it.
  • BigDaddyBigDaddy Red Chipper Posts: 4 ✭✭
    Sorry, I got stuck on the "loose Asian guy" aspect of the hand. How do you factor that into a range ? :(
    Moderation in Moderation.

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