10 NL loose turn and river bets ?

andreicosandreicos Red Chipper Posts: 24 ✭✭
PokerStars Zoom, Hold'em No Limit - $0.05/$0.10 - 6 players

Ildarkins (UTG): $4.04 (40 bb)
eclibrise (MP): $13.07 (131 bb)
tihatan (CO): $10.10 (101 bb)
Andreicos (BU): $15.99 (160 bb)
ElTouna (SB): $31.52 (315 bb) [61 hands/VPIP 27/ PFR 17/ 3B 0/Postflop Agg 41]
Nizzzzzz (BB): $11.90 (119 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.15) Hero (Andreicos) is BTN with A T
3 players fold, Andreicos (BU) raises to $0.25, ElTouna (SB) calls $0.20, 1 fold

Flop: ($0.60) 3 J 7 (2 players)
ElTouna (SB) checks, Andreicos (BU) bets $0.44, ElTouna (SB) calls $0.44

Turn: ($1.48) T (2 players)
ElTouna (SB) checks, Andreicos (BU) bets $0.50, ElTouna (SB) raises to $1.50, Andreicos (BU) calls $1

River: ($4.48) T (2 players)
ElTouna (SB) checks, Andreicos (BU) bets $2.53, ElTouna (SB) calls $2.53

Total pot: $9.54 (Rake: $0.43)

Andreicos (BU) shows A T (three of a kind, Tens)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 57%, Flop: 14%, Turn: 16%, River: 0%)

ElTouna (SB) shows K J (a flush, King high)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 43%, Flop: 86%, Turn: 84%, River: 100%)

ElTouna (SB) wins $9.11

My after thoughts are that I should have just checked the turn, because I have a middle-strength hand that only really folds out worse hands, especially when I bet so small. When he raises me I think I'm getting enough IO to call.

On the river I thought that when he checks he could have some stuff like AJ, KJ that I could get value from, although now that I look back to it I think his range has more flushes and maybe some full houses.

I also think that Villain should be raising me here, to get value from worse flushes ? I might've even called with my hand, even though I'm pretty confident now that I shouldn't be.


  • obliviusoblivius San FranciscoRed Chipper Posts: 82 ✭✭
    Thanks for the hand... Good flop bet..I'd certainly x turn as you said in hindsight. He has a ton of TP's and draws which he is never folding. As played I'd call the x/r as it's not all that big thankfully and you do have decent IO IF the fourth diamond hits. When the board pairs on the riv I'd also check. Does he call your riv bet when he misses his turn draws? Does he call with TP? (maybe) He plays made flushes and sets and some draws the same way on the turn. If the board doesn't pair on the river I think he bets instead of x/c...His river x was a bit weird so I understand the bet because of that... Where our experts at???
  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 4,062 ✭✭✭✭✭
    ATo is in the middle of most button ranges, maybe a little higher, sure, which means one can deduce that you are betting quite wide on the flop.

    However, since your range advantage isn't crushing on this board as you have no two pair combinations and a SB flatting range needs to be quite condensed, I can't see how this is a good strategy to go this large with all those elements combined. Having the Ad is important in the sense you'll be able to play a lot of turns really well, so moving the SPR along this quickly works against you, not for you. The counter argument might be that there is some depth to play with, but I'd say 160 bbs deep isn't really that much.

    The turn card is not great for you which means you can check more and retain the equity of both your SDV and your draw - a nice use of position.

    As played the turn decision made is a contradictory one. If you are going for thin value and protection, you can think of a number of hands that will not have SDV that could use this size, or weak jacks to charge the tens, since it seems you might be betting J9s or J8s which also nice block the straight draws. That's questionable, I suppose, as you can still get raised off the winner and it's so few hands, or maybe you check the weakest jacks anyway. If you are complementing this betting size with some nut hands, great, but that doesn't change the first point.

    In the end, there is no point having position if it is not used wisely. You could have gotten thin value on the river against his different holdings or called against bluff leads, while not facing turn raises that have to be alarming when you hold the nut blocker.

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