Hand Review

Steve MSteve M Red Chipper Posts: 39 ✭✭
Game $1/$2 - 9 Players

Friday Night. New Table that opened about 1 hour ago.

Hero = ~250 Stack. No Big Hands of note. Lost $50 in a pot at showdown losing with two pair vs two pair on a wet board so pot wasn't too big.

Villain #1 = Competent, Solid player. Made a call on a river shove for about ~$100 with top pair & mentioned to the person next to him the other player looked nervous (she did, easy call IMO) but shows he 's thinking on a few levels. Took his time, made good sized bets & was trying to read players.

Only Hand we played heads up together I raised $12 PF with pocket 7's. X-X on flop of 8,6,4. X-Bet $10-Call on 5 turn. X-Bet $30-Call/Muck on blank river. He said before calling he was thinking of making a hero call (which is what I wanted it to look like).

Villain #2 = Regular, Gambler. Haven't played with this player, but he knew most of the dealers & the masseuse. May have been a higher stakes player because he mentioned about being stuck over his last few sessions. Wasn't playing an advanced game if that makes sense, was playing a little fit or fold as if knowing how to pick apart the weaker players at the table.

Effective Stack = $250 (Me)

Hero = :Kd :Kh

UTG (Villain 1) = Raises $10
Folds Around
Button (Hero) = Calls $10
SB = Folds
BB (Villain 2) = Calls $10

I decided to only call here to try and trap by keeping my range wide open. At this point, he would know I should have a pretty wide range on my button and I'm very confident in my post-flop play to do this when I think it makes sense. Against most players, I'd 3-bet all day but against this player, I thought (hoping) we would go heads-up. Villain #2 wasn't defending his blinds with much frequency, so I didn't think I'd be pricing him in & he'd still fold most hands.

Flop = $31

:4d :4c :3d

BB = Checks
UTG = Bets $22
Hero = Calls $22
BB = Calls $22

UTG's Continuation Bet didn't mean much to me. I expect him to C-Bet a ton on this somewhat dry of a board knowing my range & the BB's range should be pretty wide & he can expect to take this pot down a large percentage of the time with a C-Bet. Because I feel I am way ahead of his range enough of the time, I only call to allow him to continue betting his range knowing he's drawing very slim at best.

BB Calling surprised me. I'm thinking he has a flush draw or a low to medium pocket pair. I'm thinking 5's-9's, maybe 10's or jacks but he didn't hesitate to call PF and I'd expect some thought with those hands. If he did have a 4, I expect a checkraise a large percentage of the time to protect himself against a flush draw, especially when there is a bet & call in front of him & now $80 in the pot. I can't completely rule out a 4, but I'm not as worried about it. Also maybe some straight draws with 5,6 suited, A,5 suited.

Turn = $97

:10s

BB = Checks
UTG = Checks
Hero = Bets $65

BB = Calls $65
UTG = Folds

After 2 checks, I'm pretty sure I'm ahead and wanted to give incorrect odds to a flush draw to continue, especially because I hold the :Kd . I went with 2/3 pot trying to leave myself with a 2/3 pot bet on the river. When BB calls, I have him on a flush draw or a pocket pair. I rule out a 4 because I would really expect him to checkraise at this point or even lead the turn. I can't imagine a 4 risking it being checked around and a diamond coming off. If he does have a 4, my hand should look like a draw to him too. The only made hands I'm behind are pocket 3's, pocket 4's, pocket 10's & 3,4 suited.

River = $227

:Jh

BB = Checks

Hero = ???

Comments

  • osirus0830osirus0830 Red Chipper Posts: 71 ✭✭
    edited June 7
    I understand the merit of going after thin value but what do you beat that will call you in this spot? Some flopped flush draw that turned or rivered a pair? I would check back.
  • wescrowescro Red Chipper Posts: 11 ✭✭
    I think you do follow through with a shove here, because you can be called by much worse, given that neither FD nor SD hit, he could easily try to hero call you a lower PP, or as osirus said- a busted flush draw that caught a pair. I agree with your thinking that he's unlikely to be nutted since there isn't any advantage to him playing that passively with a made hand. I know balance might not be crucial at $1/$2 live, but think about what other hands you could theoretically take this line with. If you want to have some future FE equity when bluffing on draw heavy boards, you need to be able to bet and show up with a hand like KK here too.

    The most likely outcome is going to be a snap fold from V here. But in terms of outcomes that change your EV, I think it's far more likely that he calls with a worse hand (XdTd, XdJd, A5s or A4s, etc) than he shows up with a set.
  • Jordan PowerJordan Power Red Chipper Posts: 423 ✭✭✭
    Preflop: Why do you think 3 betting doesn't make sense in this spot? Or more to the point, why is just calling going to net you more money than raising?
  • osirus0830osirus0830 Red Chipper Posts: 71 ✭✭
    edited June 7
    wescro wrote: »
    I think you do follow through with a shove here, because you can be called by much worse, given that neither FD nor SD hit, he could easily try to hero call you a lower PP, or as osirus said- a busted flush draw that caught a pair. I agree with your thinking that he's unlikely to be nutted since there isn't any advantage to him playing that passively with a made hand. I know balance might not be crucial at $1/$2 live, but think about what other hands you could theoretically take this line with. If you want to have some future FE equity when bluffing on draw heavy boards, you need to be able to bet and show up with a hand like KK here too.

    The most likely outcome is going to be a snap fold from V here. But in terms of outcomes that change your EV, I think it's far more likely that he calls with a worse hand (XdTd, XdJd, A5s or A4s, etc) than he shows up with a set.

    Hero flatted on the button so he could have all 43s, 54s, A4s, and A4o. Not enough combos that villain could talk himself into a hero call with when hero could have trips plus imo.
  • wescrowescro Red Chipper Posts: 11 ✭✭
    "Hero flatted on the button so he could have all 43s, 54s, A4s, and A4o. Not enough combos that villain could talk himself into a hero call with when hero could have trips plus imo."

    I agree and that's why I also agree that V's most likely response is to fold, making the decision, most likely moot in terms of how much we win here. But unless our read of V is that he is SOOO trappy that he would be likely to X/C on two draw-heavy streets with a made hand, then it's incredibly unlikely that Hero is behind here. If V is a thinking regular, he's likely to put Hero's river shove on a very polarized range and I think there is some long-term equity in betting thin-to-medium value when our ranges should be polarized, because now our opponents can't just call with any bluffcatching range, they have to be worried about their bluffcatching range not being good.


  • osirus0830osirus0830 Red Chipper Posts: 71 ✭✭
    wescro wrote: »
    "Hero flatted on the button so he could have all 43s, 54s, A4s, and A4o. Not enough combos that villain could talk himself into a hero call with when hero could have trips plus imo."

    I agree and that's why I also agree that V's most likely response is to fold, making the decision, most likely moot in terms of how much we win here. But unless our read of V is that he is SOOO trappy that he would be likely to X/C on two draw-heavy streets with a made hand, then it's incredibly unlikely that Hero is behind here. If V is a thinking regular, he's likely to put Hero's river shove on a very polarized range and I think there is some long-term equity in betting thin-to-medium value when our ranges should be polarized, because now our opponents can't just call with any bluffcatching range, they have to be worried about their bluffcatching range not being good.


    You basically have to believe that villain would over call with under pairs on earlier streets in a multi way pot in order for a thin river bet to be plus EV imo. In a multi way pot the hands that villains defend with should be stronger since they have to do well against two ranges. If hero bet, he was likely raised or villain folded. Getting a call is just not likely.

  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 2,035 ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 7
    Asking what to do on this river (shoving, you cannot not shove) is irrelevant.

    You should have 3bet often preflop (only acceptable exception: if SB or BB are maniac and you except a squeeze very often) both for value and equity denial (against AX).
    Even better to 3bet against a player better than the field (excurse : UTG is very probably not a good ("solid, competent") player, but maybe just better than others / you.) : you want to apply pressure on him. You don't want him to lead the table and hunt the fishes; you want to shut him down. This means raising him and pushing him around. So your adjustment should not be to flat more, trying to trap with KK, but to 3bet pre more often and play your hands more aggressively preflop.

    Once on flop, your hand is underrep and good to raise for value and to balance your bluffs - these being mostly OESD, gutter and FD. Also having Kd means it's less likely UTG has a bluff (you block AdKd, KdQd, KdJd, KdTd) and is more into value hands - which is good since most of them are PP you are ahead of.

    On turn after how you played preflop and flop and BB/UTG checking, a bet is mandatory and I'm ok with the sizing. I could even go bigger, trying to take advantage of calling mistakes from hands like TP and FD (esp. from BB).
  • Paul_KPaul_K DFWRed Chipper Posts: 313 ✭✭✭
    Tactic:
    Red wrote: »
    only acceptable exception: if SB or BB are maniac and you except a squeeze very often

    Strategy:
    Red wrote: »
    your adjustment should not be to flat more, trying to trap with KK, but to 3bet pre more often and play your hands more aggressively preflop.

    Tactics are fine in specific situations. But when misapplied, blow up in your face and leave you wondering what the hell you were thinking.

    Sound strategy can't be misapplied.

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