Facing Donk Bet Turn Shove

gl523gl523 Red Chipper Posts: 101 ✭✭
$.02/.04 Online 5 Players
Effective Stack Size: $3.86

Hero is in BU with ThTs
HJ raises to $.12. Hero calls.

Pot: $.30
Flop: 5h3s8s
HJ bets $.30. Hero raises to .9. HJ calls.

Pot: $2.10
Turn: 5s
HJ shoves with $2.84. Hero calls.

River: 5d
HJ shows JhJc.

I forgot to consider the fact that Villain had a lot of overpairs since Villain was the first to open and made a donk bet with a board like this. I thought that my TT was good enough since I thought that Villain might do this with two overcards. (Sorry about the card format. I didn't know how to do it since I only saw emojis as the option.)

Comments

  • LeChiffreLeChiffre NetherlandsRed Chipper Posts: 516 ✭✭✭
    Key decision point is the raise on the flop, which leads to the conondrum on the turn. Why did you decide to raise?
  • theagent77theagent77 Red Chipper Posts: 12 ✭✭
    Yeah your logic is correct, I rarely feel safe with TT when facing a turn donk shove from a player who already showed strenght. Board is good for us but a lot of hands crush our pocket pair
  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 2,144 ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 10
    Preflop
    First of all, you shall consider raising preflop, both for value against a (at least expected) loose HJ open range and for isolation (making SB and BB fold).
    Although calling isn't wrong since a med PP and position do well in MW.
    I like a little bit of both, but considering it's 5-handed, I'd be more on raising than on calling.

    On the flop, raising can make sens if V has open pretty loosely and is continuing very often (TP, overpair, FD, OESD, maybe guters). You want to put pressure on his draws.

    Yet I don't think V is going to fold PP very often. This is an issue as TT doesn't protect well against V's bluff catcher (mostly overpairs?). Even worst in this situation: holding Ts means we cut many FD V could c-bet with. So I'm definitely NOT raising flop with TT, let along TxTs. This is spew.
    If H raises flop* - as I think we can sometimes - let's rather fire A8 (eventually A5s too) as we have 5 outs instead of 2 against a PP and we are blocking sets aka the top of V value range on flop.

    * you shall understand that a raise here should be a polarized raise, with a pretty big bet sizing. A8/A5 wouldn't fit such range, yet it's good to have some merged hands into a pole range : to protect against bluff catcher. Doesn't mean to raise all of them in all situation, just than some merged hands completed a pole range well IMHO


    On the turn, V donk-shoving is showing a immense strength. You've a merely bluff catcher with a bad FD backup equity (if alive, maybe V has already a boat or a better flush). A meh overpair (bluff catcher) when the most obvious draw completed isn't great. What do we beat ? AsXx ? 8X ? 76 no spades ? Does V get this line with such combo? (so no @theagent77 , the board isn't that great considering what V represent)
    It might not seen as an easy fold - we have a PP and a pseudo FD - but it should be a disciplined fold.
    "Don't pay them up"

    On the River
    V turned JJ into a bluff on turn. I don't like his donk-shove. I think he is loosing value. Yet considering your raise, on the turn JJ no spades is rather a check/fold (Hero is spades heavy) or check/call (H is value heavy, yet 5s decrease considerably the amount of sets H now can hold).

    What I'd have done as Villain is bet/shove flop (considering Hero being able to raise with FD/nutFD/combo FD, OESD, TPTK and sets) as now your raising range is under immense pressure and he doesn't need too much fold to be +EV.
  • theagent77theagent77 Red Chipper Posts: 12 ✭✭
    @Red yes of course I will absolutely fold after his shove, we are saying the same thing :smile:

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