Check raised on the flop

Joe HastingsJoe Hastings Red Chipper Posts: 7 ✭✭
Live 2/5 NL at Foxwoods.
Stacks: UTG $300,
CO $320,
Hero on button, $1700
UTG raises to $20. UTG is a
typical Rec player, not very aggressive or bluffy
MP2 calls. MP2 calls lots of raises, plays too many hands
CO calls. CO is early twenties. Bought in for 250 but seems somewhat competent.
I call with AQ off
Pot is $80
Flop is A 8 4 rainbow
All check to me with AQ , I bet $60, UTG folds, MP2 folds, CO raises to $120.

I think my first mistake was not 3 betting pre and now I face this c/r. There was a time when I would have snap called but not now. I ask myself what hand he would c/r that I beat. I think he would have 3bet AK pre. If not he would have bet the flop with AK. Also not many players c/r with only top pair. Not sure if he's a fish that would have called pre with A4 or A8 . This looks like a set or at worst two pair. After thinking about it I fold.

Was this too nitty?
What about my flop bet sizing?

Comments

  • G14ClassifiedG14Classified Red Chipper Posts: 7 ✭✭
    I'd be looking for a table change with all these super short stacks at the table. That being said, yeah, I think this fold is way too nitty. I don't think V can be that competent buying in for 50 bb's. I would personally just be treating this like a shove, so... pot is 80+60+230+170=540. 540/170=.314. Putting in $170 to win %540 you need to be good 31% of the time. If you give him 88 and 44 that's 6 combos. He needs 2 combos of bluffs or value that you beat. I wouldn't give anyone buying in for 250 credit for not playing A8 or A4 like this pre but if he's doing that then he has all the AJ AT A9 and so on. I'll just GII here 100%.
  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 2,094 ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 19
    You describe CO as "somewhat competent", yet he min c-r on a dry and rather static flop. Either he is a not that competent or he think you're a fish.
    Folding is ... meh... without any further info on CO, an understandable fold. You block AX he could overplay (yet considering what I read I wouldn't discount AK) but don't block sets and there is no draw (except naked gutshot 76, 75 and 65). Except if he is able to spazz out with like A7 or else, I kinda prefer the nitty fold.

    But I also think you didn't observe him much enough and you / we have a lack of information for a better decision.
    I think my first mistake was not 3 betting pre
    Absolutely. Against these short stack with a strong hand and a great squeeze spot, not 3betting is criminal. (3bet with the intention of playing for stack preflop)

    Pot is $80
    Flop is A 8 4 rainbow
    All check to me with AQ , I bet $60
    Too big, waaay too big.
    And might not even be necessary (low SPR and not really vulnerable)
  • Joe HastingsJoe Hastings Red Chipper Posts: 7 ✭✭
    Thanks for your help. Much appreciated.
  • AceBalaAceBala Red Chipper Posts: 17 ✭✭
    Red wrote: »
    You describe CO as "somewhat competent", yet he min c-r on a dry and rather static flop. Either he is a not that competent or he think you're a fish.
    Folding is ... meh... without any further info on CO, an understandable fold. You block AX he could overplay (yet considering what I read I wouldn't discount AK) but don't block sets and there is no draw (except naked gutshot 76, 75 and 65). Except if he is able to spazz out with like A7 or else, I kinda prefer the nitty fold.

    But I also think you didn't observe him much enough and you / we have a lack of information for a better decision.
    I think my first mistake was not 3 betting pre
    Absolutely. Against these short stack with a strong hand and a great squeeze spot, not 3betting is criminal. (3bet with the intention of playing for stack preflop)

    Pot is $80
    Flop is A 8 4 rainbow
    All check to me with AQ , I bet $60
    Too big, waaay too big.
    And might not even be necessary (low SPR and not really vulnerable)

    Super interesting spot @joehasting, @red , You said we need more information for better decission, What more information we need to watch in this situation? I play a regular Home game, Mostly the check raises are with Over pair or 2 pair + hands. I have folded lot of hands with check-raises. Some times 2nd Pair also does that to me and they will show the cards after i fold :-(. I am trying to figure out what should i watch for?

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