Big Pocket Pairs Preflop

John_BlancoJohn_Blanco Red Chipper Posts: 9 ✭✭
Hi!

I posted this hands on a different thread however is better if I post them here.Let me know what you think.

These are hands where I had big pocket pairs and the flop comes an overcard (in the second hand doesn't really matter as it was all in preflop)


1-2 Live.Hero is new at the table,no reads,probably the 1st hand dealt.Hero in the hand is effective stack with ~220

Button opens ~10 (can't really remember if it was 6,7,or10 to be honest)
Hero in the SB :Qd :Qs flat.
BB 3B ~60
Button and Hero calls.
Flop is :Kh :Xc :Xc (two low clubs,is not a paired board)
Hero checks,BB checks,BU bets small,Hero calls,BB raises (to an amount that I can't remember,but puts Hero All in),BU folds.
..
What could I've done different apart of the obvious 3Bet Vs BU Open?
Fold Flop and hate life?

If I 3 Bet preflop and get called by BB,then on the flop X/F? (probably not because of SPR,right?)
X/C evaluate turn?
X/Raise All in?
CBet/ReraiseAll in or CBetF Shove turn?


Different day,another hand.
1-2 Live.Hero new to the table,one or two orbit after sitting gets :Jd :Js EP.Hero is Effective stack with around ~200.Straddle pot so 1-2-5.
Hero Opens to 15.
Folds to Straddle,who 3B to ~75.
Hero 4Bet shoves (and gets called) and board runs dry Q high.
..

So,in this hand.anything that could be different?
Call 3Bet,and fold Vs Cbet on the Q high flop?
Call 3Bet,Call Vs Cbet and hate life again on Q high flop,and then evaluate turn?
Bet Vs Straddle check on the flop,fold or reraise shove if he raises?
If flop is check check,get to showdown no matter how (trying to extract value somehow)?

Thanks,

John.

Comments

  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 2,090 ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 4
    All together: study 3bet / reaction to 3bet.

    Hand 1
    Not 3betting preflop is a blunder and the root of your pseudo tough spot. You shall 3bet QQ 95% of the time SB v. BU and only flat if you've an extremely good reason to.

    When BB 3bet, you're now in a tough spot as it really depends on his 3bet range and what's your equity against it - minus your under-realization because OOP. Also flat/call is really meh because then SPR is less than 1 (eff. stack 160 in a 180$), meaning you've absolutely no margin to maneuver to bluff posflop and you have range disadvantage.

    Hand 2
    Opening is ok. Facing the 3bet, only good reaction is fold or shove. Calling to be in a barely more than 1 SPR flop without RA makes no sense (SPR too low to take advantage of position or be able to postflop bluff).
    Facing the 3bet, the decision depends on a) what is V 3betting with and b) if we 4bet, b1) how often does he fold and b2) when he calls, what is his range / our equity.
  • BigDaddyBigDaddy Red Chipper Posts: 22 ✭✭
    What Red said, except in hand #2, on a straddle I would open 20-25. That is the open I see a lot at the 1/2 games I play when there is a straddle. 15 isn't much larger than a no straddle open probably. Not sure it would have made a difference on this particular hand though.
  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 2,090 ✭✭✭✭
    BigDaddy wrote: »
    What Red said, except in hand #2, on a straddle I would open 20-25. That is the open I see a lot at the 1/2 games I play when there is a straddle. 15 isn't much larger than a no straddle open probably. Not sure it would have made a difference on this particular hand though.

    You've to know WHY you're betting and having a STRATEGY all along. Don't use the same bet sizing just because they do - at the end, they are bad low stakes players, they make a ton of mistakes and most of time don't have any plan ; not the players you want to mimic...
    You've to think about your actions, elaborate a suitable strategy and build up you ranges accordingly.

    Try to see and understand the implications
    a) of a 5$ straddle in a 200$ stack game and
    b) why 15$ or 25$ opening are so different and can't be played the same at all.

    Hint:
    Sizing = Range
  • BigDaddyBigDaddy Red Chipper Posts: 22 ✭✭
    Red:
    First and foremost, please show how to do the spoiler thingy.
    Second, please expand on your answer. Not the don't mimic the bad players part, but the a) and b) part.
  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 2,090 ✭✭✭✭
    BigDaddy wrote: »
    Red:
    First and foremost, please show how to do the spoiler thingy.
    You can either type it directly yourself using the markup:
    [sp0iler] ... [/sp0iler]
    (just replace "0" by "o")
    You also have the format option right above the box where you write your reply - it looks like a reverse IP - then you can chose between Code, Spoiler and Quote
    BigDaddy wrote: »
    Second, please expand on your answer. Not the don't mimic the bad players part, but the a) and b) part.
    Nope ! Try to find the answer yourself first.

    Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime
  • John_BlancoJohn_Blanco Red Chipper Posts: 9 ✭✭
    Thanks for your answers!

    I guess I'll have to work on my 3Bet preflop game.

    Regarding of the hand 2 topic,I think I should have open it higher than 15 as @BigDaddy says ,since JJ is not really a hand that I want to see a flop multiway,having many players behind to act.
    (maybe I have a nitty face and they respected my raise lol..)

    My deduction about the straddle and why 15$ and 25$ sizing affect how to play a hand is:
    Simply because with 15,players could have wider calling ranges,since the SPR would still be relatively high,therefore there are more options available postflop to take the pot down,while with 25 opening, the SPR would be lower,so defending ranges technically should include less speculative holdings.

    (then we have a 3 bet out of nowhere aaaand "oh well,Let's see what should I do in this spot.." lol)
  • RCP Coach - Fausto ValdezRCP Coach - Fausto Valdez RCP Coach Posts: 835 ✭✭✭✭
    Hey @John_Blanco

    Hand 1
    with your actions ... this whole hand is a mess and without knowing the dynamics i would just assume once original 3bettor who was the BB decides to XR effectively all in he probably isn't bluffing. He may have been induced given you said the Button decided to bet small but in a general sense since leverage is already cross and everyone is basically committed in this pot i would assume he doesn't have any bluffs except AQcc that has massive equity, which he would had probably had bet to begin with.

    Obviously a 3b would had simplified this situation unless you had some reason to deviate from your plans. Even when called and facing this board, looks like it will favor your range and you could go two ways, use a size that favors your whole range to stay uncapped or have a check strategy that favors your whole range as well.

    Hand 2
    this simply comes down to what you think his 3b range is and the best way to make that range make a mistake assuming you think your ahead. We could call and stack of on basically any board not containing an Ace since he might be Ace heavy naturally oooorrr just simply shove since most of the money is in anyways and just let math do its thing.
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