Flush draw blocker on the flop

LeChiffreLeChiffre NetherlandsRed Chipper Posts: 532 ✭✭✭
Suppose we face a bet on a two-tone flop, and we have an offsuit made hand that we are comfortable calling with. If we could choose, would we rather block the flush draw or not?

A reason to prefer having the suit card is to be able to continue on more turns.
A reason to prefer not having the suit card is so villain can have more semi-bluffs.

Which one is more important?

I know that this depends on the player, our ranges, bluffing tendencies on flop and turn, etc.

So let me just ask this generally speaking. Do we prefer to have a flush draw blocker on the flop or not? Are there any guidelines when one or the other would be the case?

Comments

  • LeChiffreLeChiffre NetherlandsRed Chipper Posts: 532 ✭✭✭
    Feel free to answer this question with counter questions. Let's get that poker mind going.
  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 2,150 ✭✭✭✭
    It's a very broad question. Maybe too broad?

    Usually, it's better NOT to hold it.
    You don't want to block Villain worst hands, so you don't want to block a card you want V to bluff with.

    Having this blocker thinking you have maneuverability on future street means you can use this card. I only see 2 situations:
    • The suited Ace: you've a bckd nut FD and you can block the nuts when FD completes.
    • The "golden card" (the one opening combo draws): it decrease the equity hold by draws because you're blocking combo draws (mostly relevant for med-high cards). Also you can put pressure on later streets by blocking the highest equity draws and representing them yourself.
  • LeChiffreLeChiffre NetherlandsRed Chipper Posts: 532 ✭✭✭
    edited August 5
    Fair enough, didn't think of the rank of the card being relevant! Thanks for that. Let me see if I understand correctly what you're saying.

    Indeed if the flop is :KC: :6S: :2S:

    - We would rather have :AS: :6D: than :AH: :6D: , indeed due to a BDFD to the nuts, and blocking the nuts ourselves should the board run out with only one spade.
    - We would rather have :KH: :TD: than :KH: :TS:. Having a :TS: is not a big deal in terms of backdoor flush potential, and blocks villain's spade draw semi-bluffs.
  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 2,150 ✭✭✭✭
    Yes, it's kinda the way I would like to have it seen grossly.
    But...
    LeChiffre wrote: »
    Fair enough, didn't think of the rank of the card being relevant! Thanks for that.

    Fact is, the board is also of much importance. Kc6s2s isn't the same as KcTs2s or Ks6c2s. Same applies for monotone board: AK8, K87 or K42 monochrome aren't to be handle the same way.

    The blocker(s) Hero hold will interact with the board - and lock or unlock combos Villain could hold. (And this works reverse from Villain to Hero, too)

    That's why I cannot fully confirm your example - although I'd say you're on the right track to my point of view.
  • LeChiffreLeChiffre NetherlandsRed Chipper Posts: 532 ✭✭✭
    Yeah alright, that makes sense. At least I got some more perspective on it.
  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 2,150 ✭✭✭✭
    To have a direct view on that: open Flopzilla, input a range for villain, input your "dead cards", select a flop and chose which combo will continue and lock them. "Tab" the view to see how many combos continue instead of % of the range.

    Now you can change one card of the flop (but don't change Hero's hand, Villain's range nor V continuation) OR Hero's card(s) (but don't change the flop, Villain's range nor V continuation range).
    So you see very directly how many and which combos Villains get or lose depending on the flop or on which cards Hero's hold.
  • LeChiffreLeChiffre NetherlandsRed Chipper Posts: 532 ✭✭✭
    Great idea, thanks!

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