Cheap Preflop 4bet call with 89s from BU

SamiusMesterSamiusMester Red Chipper Posts: 7 ✭✭
NL10 6max game. Online game on Unibet. I dont know the players and in this room we cant use HUD-s.
HJ (10$) raise to 0,25. CO calls. I (11,27$) 3bet to 1,15 from BU with :8h:9h . BB calls. HJ 4bet to 3,02. Pot 5,62. I need to call 1,87. If I call, BB will probably do the same, because he gets a great price for it, and I don't think he could raise or shove with this situation, so I call. BB do the same.
The pot is 9,08. Flop is :Td:7h:3d HJ shoves allin with 6,98. I fold...

I think I should called that. The pot odds is 30%. My Equity against a QQ+, AK range is 41,45% and if I didn't consider AK, I still have +5% Edge. I didn't count with the BB.
What do you think? The Preflop call was to wild? Should i avoid this situations instead?


  • Cracked_Jacks11Cracked_Jacks11 Red Chipper Posts: 47 ✭✭
    I would say definitely avoid this situation. You are only 100 bb's deep to start the hand, which doesn't give you a ton of room to maneuver. I think a suited connector like you had is a great hand to call preflop and play your drawing hand in position. 3-betting probably isn't too bad, but once you get 4-bet there is no way that could be a profitable call even if you are getting a good price. You are going to a flop with a 1:1 SPR or less with 9-high. Suited connectors look nice and can be fun to play, but they can be the source of big leaks if you play them without the proper implied odds.
    This might be oversimplifying, but I think you are better off playing drawing hands in higher SPR spots and stronger starting hands in smaller SPR spots.
  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 2,160 ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 31
    Facing the 4bet preflop, it doesn't only go around the price, but (mostly) around the range HJ would 4bet with.
    Yes, BB brings a ton of dead money meaning you can / should go wider (assuming he won't spazz our and 5bet-shove). Yet you're not that super dead (100bb), and if both you and BB call, SPR will be lower than 1 and HJ will shove almost any flop. Can you call almost any flop ? Don't you have better hands to continue with than it's ok to fold your 3bet-bluff 98s ?

    You say you've 41.45% equity if V 4bet and c-bet shove QQ+/AK. But 3-way on a two-tone board, will V shove AK without FD/bckd FD? If he continues with QQ+/AK when AK hold either FD/bckdFD or a A blocker (QQ+, AdKd,AhKh,AdKh,AdKs,AdKc,AhKd,AhKs,AhKc), then you've hit 38% equity (36% in case of only AdKd and AhKh). And slightly less if against QQ+.

    Last but not least: don't forget that BB is still in the hand at this point and could call as well - with a hand which will usually be ahead of you.

    On the flop, I think you might just have the odds / being barely +EV because you hit a great draw (OESD + bckd FD) and the pot is already so bloated. Yet it's a high variance play with marginal equity, so don't be sad to lose often on this spot.
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 2,716 -
    Yeah just fold pre, the SPR is going to be tiny and you're not even closing the action.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • SamiusMesterSamiusMester Red Chipper Posts: 7 ✭✭
    Thanks for the valuable information, I wont do that again. I can see now what was the problem. I love this forum thingy...:)
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 2,716 -
    Thanks for the valuable information, I wont do that again. I can see now what was the problem. I love this forum thingy...:)

    And the thingy loves you!
    Moderation In Moderation

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