1-3 MGM NH first hand

Rich57Rich57 Red Chipper Posts: 110 ✭✭
I just sat down around noon on a Saturday and am in the CO on my very first hand. Table is eight players, most stacks appear to be larger than my 500 buy-in (max at NH). The hand I watched as I was sitting down indicated a pretty wild action table (big pot, called showdown, two pair winner). I also went in expressly determined to call more bets and play more pots as I have been too easily pushed around lately. Amazing what a few sessions of Core do for your attitude/approach.

I am dealt :Ad:Td , action folds around to me and I make it 10 to go.
Villain is in BB eff stack about 300. Folds to BB who raises to 50.

My immediate thought is whether he is seeing me as an OMC (I do look the part) and wanting to see how easily I would fold to pressure. Sitting at the table I am thinking I have decent equity against a BB three-bet range, how this response could establish an image at the table, is four-betting a viable option, so I am tanking a bit. I asked the dealer how much he had behind because V’s arm was obscuring his chip stack. He lifts his arm and dealer replies that he has about 245 behind. Seemed like a good question because his head snapped around and he looked me over very intensely. I finally made the call.

Flop (100 pot) :Qc:8d:4s
V cbets 50. I now have backdoor straight and flush draws and put in another call to see what the turn brings and how V reacts.

Turn (200 pot) is the qh
V thinks for a moment and checks. Hero?

Comments

  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 2,160 ✭✭✭✭
  • Jordan PowerJordan Power Red Chipper Posts: 513 ✭✭✭
    Def shove.

    Also, would love to meet a fellow Red Chipper. There's a few of us who play at MGM National Harbor, good group. DM me next time you're there. I'm there ~75% of evenings.
  • NinjahNinjah Red Chipper Posts: 1,138 ✭✭✭✭
    If you haven't been at the table long enough to identify a 3b range for this player then you're playing bingo at this SPR with what I would imagine is your weakest Ax hand. Fold preflop.
  • NinjahNinjah Red Chipper Posts: 1,138 ✭✭✭✭
    Ninjah wrote: »
    If you haven't been at the table long enough to identify a 3b range for this player then you're playing bingo at this SPR with what I would imagine is your weakest Ax hand. Fold preflop.

    How is ATs his weakest Ax hand? He should be opening all suited aces and ATo+ as a default in the CO. Folding ATs here is basically an exploit and saying that villain is nutted for this 3bet sizing (which I'm fine with, btw), but if BB 3bet to 3.5-4x, for instance, folding here would definitely be overfolding.

    I'm clearly talking about postflop play when the being the weakest Ax hand that we would likely call a 3b with, a hand that is dominated by V's likely 3b range and no maneuverability postflop at this SPR.
  • boyd148boyd148 Red Chipper Posts: 96 ✭✭
    I don't think it was a typo. What are you hoping to flop? Most 3bets from BB will be strong ie big pair or strong ace. If you flop an ace, you are likely outkicked. If you hit your ten, he could easily have an overpair. If you call the 3bet your SPR will be 2.45, not a good spot for chasing a flush. With no specific history on villian, just fold preflop.
  • NinjahNinjah Red Chipper Posts: 1,138 ✭✭✭✭
    Ninjah wrote: »
    Ninjah wrote: »
    If you haven't been at the table long enough to identify a 3b range for this player then you're playing bingo at this SPR with what I would imagine is your weakest Ax hand. Fold preflop.

    How is ATs his weakest Ax hand? He should be opening all suited aces and ATo+ as a default in the CO. Folding ATs here is basically an exploit and saying that villain is nutted for this 3bet sizing (which I'm fine with, btw), but if BB 3bet to 3.5-4x, for instance, folding here would definitely be overfolding.

    I'm clearly talking about postflop play when the being the weakest Ax hand that we would likely call a 3b with, a hand that is dominated by V's likely 3b range and no maneuverability postflop at this SPR.

    Oh, sorry, maybe a typo. You said "fold preflop". I'm guessing you meant fold on the flop?

    Fold preflop to the 3b.
  • Rich57Rich57 Red Chipper Posts: 110 ✭✭
    I find it fascinating that the consensus here seems to be to fold preflop to the 3B. Everything I have been studying (Core, Forum, etc.) on RC seems to point to standing your ground and being aggressive. I put him on about a 30% range that included a ton of hands I had the advantage against as well as positional advantage. When he cbet the flop for the dreaded "same bet", I had backdoors and that was an easier call than preflop. I did raise the turn to 200 (putting him all in) and he tanked for a full 90 seconds before folding.
  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 4,200 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I wouldn't be fascinated by a few forum comments, raise your standards.
  • Jordan PowerJordan Power Red Chipper Posts: 513 ✭✭✭
    edited August 7
    Ice cold and accurate, as per usual.

    Those saying the BBs 3-betting range is going to be super narrow and completely value are making a generalization based on the 3-betting frequencies of your average low limit player. There are certainly some players only 3 betting QQ+, AK but even if this is the case, ATs has 29.3% equity and based on the pot size and 3 bet size, you only need 38% to profitably continue. So we are not massively far off and the wider he 3 bets, the better you are doing up front. And we have a hand that can make some strong 5-card holdings by the river and we are not going to face a flop shove by default so I think calling is fine here.

    I would not fold pre here, personally. I think the MGM games are a lot looser than some of the other locales I have frequented but that's not backed by a huge sample size away from the National Harbor.

    Another note would be your open size to $10 is going to get exactly 0 respect at the MGM. I'm not saying raise big to make people fold but you'll miss value with this sizing, typically.
  • Rich57Rich57 Red Chipper Posts: 110 ✭✭
    Jordan, I agree on the opener sizing. Guess I saw the 10 open on the previous hand as I was sitting and just went with it. Normally at MGM I open 15-20, and more to punish limpers. I will definitely DM next time I head up there but I only get there a few times a year.
    Persuadeo, fascinating was more a general observation that advice pn the forum frequently seems to contradict the training material, possibly could have found a better word.
  • Jordan PowerJordan Power Red Chipper Posts: 513 ✭✭✭
    Yeah, 15-20 you're still going to get enough action as you've probably seen. And sounds good, Rich, look forward to meeting a fellow Red Chipper.
  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 4,200 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Making really inefficient opens to exploit weak players is fine, but you can't escape reciprocity so easily. Make it 20 pre, now you're folding to the three bet.
  • Jordan PowerJordan Power Red Chipper Posts: 513 ✭✭✭
    Well there’s a term I have not heard applied to poker before. Off to Google...
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 2,716 -
    Well there’s a term I have not heard applied to poker before. Off to Google...

    The holistic school has its own thesaurus.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 2,160 ✭✭✭✭
    @Ninjah @circusjuggler007
    Folding ATs will be ill-advised here. Take some good off-table study time on what Persuadeo meant in his last comment; if you can understand how he arrives to this conclusion, you will have had an epiphany :-)
    persuadeo wrote: »
    Making really inefficient opens to exploit weak players is fine, but you can't escape reciprocity so easily. Make it 20 pre, now you're folding to the three bet.
  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 4,200 ✭✭✭✭✭
    At some point this thread became Who's on First, I'm afraid.

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