Should i have called?

Sean_McDuffy123Sean_McDuffy123 Red Chipper Posts: 6 ✭✭
edited August 2019 in Live Poker Hands
2/2 NLHE
Effective stacks were 400. BB is pretty fish and Button is a calling station.

I open raise to 22 with :Ac:Qs in the CO. Button and BB called.

3 ways to a flop. Pot was $68
Flop was :Qh:Js:8h

BB checked.
I C-bet to 63. Button called. BB checked raise to 163.
I decided to call additional 100.
Now, Button went all in with $350 and then BB decided to jam all in who covered me. I had $210 behind.

Total Pot was 68 + 63 + 63 + 163 + 100 + 289 + 336 = 1082

Based on the action, i thought i was up against 2pairs/sets/ straight and i was drawing dead. I tanked for a long time and i decided to fold even though i was getting about 5 to 1 on a call coz I felt i was beat.

Button had :Ah:7h and BB had :Kc:Qd

Should I have folded? Any thoughts? just a sick play by the 2 players.
Thanks




Comments

  • RyanH1995RyanH1995 Red Chipper Posts: 75 ✭✭
    Your open to 11x seems pretty large for a $2/2 game was that the standard in this game? On the flop I think your sizing is too large. This is a board you want to be betting large on but betting pot may fold out weaker hands you want calls from and incentivize your opponents to continue with hands that beat you or have a ton of equity. I think your bet bloats the pot and puts you in a tough spot when you get raised. There are a ton of draws your opponents can have but they can also have two pair combos, 88 and T9. I think you can check with this specific combo sometimes as you have better hands in your range to bet for value like QQ, JJ, 88, T9 and QJ. If you are going to bet it I think a smaller sizing like $40-45 works better. With the action that took place you have to fold it just turned out that this time your opponents were clicking buttons. Against more competent opponents I would expect to be way behind most times in this situation.
  • Sean_McDuffy123Sean_McDuffy123 Red Chipper Posts: 6 ✭✭
    @RyanH1995 Yes, 10 to 11x was like the standard as there were a few loose and passive calling stations. I went for pot on the flop as I felt those calling stations were always calling with worse so I went for more value than the usual 50 to 60% c-bet.
  • RyanH1995RyanH1995 Red Chipper Posts: 75 ✭✭
    It is important to recognize that your opponents will call with worse and at times you can bet larger to squeeze out extra value but this is not one of those times. When you bet so large you lower the SPR to a point where you have no room to navigate on future streets when there are a lot of bad turn and river cards for you.
  • LeChiffreLeChiffre NetherlandsRed Chipper Posts: 634 ✭✭✭
    Think I would usually put AQ in my check-call pile, but if I decide to bet definitely closer to 1/2-2/3 pot region.
  • CluuuuuuuutchCluuuuuuuutch Red Chipper Posts: 5 ✭✭
    I don't mind the bet sizing here. If both players are loose enough, you might as well size up preflop and post flop to exploit them.

    Given how loose these players are, AQ is a mandatory bet. Depending on how aggressive these players are, we can often bet-fold AQ here.

    The strangest thing about this hand is the button's 3B jam on the flop. Pretty much all of the button's value range will be raising your original flop bet because of how vulnerable almost all his value hands are. So, this 3B jam should almost always be bluffs, overplayed top pairs, or occasionally weaker 2 pairs. The BB getting it in is the main concern and this is a fold because the BB did get it in.
  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 4,993 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2019
    You can't play one strategy preflop and on the flop, and then a different strategy on the rest of the flop and beyond. It was your choice/strategy to bet an obscene amount preflop and c/bet. That's fine, it certainly seems like you're getting action and worse hands to call. Raising to $22 and getting a call from KQ and A7 is a pretty good gig if you can get it. It's typical here to be up against one or two draws. No one is folding a flush draw or straight draw here. But it's also typical to be up against hands that beat you. Because of your large preflop raise (not sure how you or the table have been playing) you're going to start getting more calls with QQ and JJ than see reraises. And of course all the draws and combo draws and 2 pair hands and 88.

    For grins I put it in a simulator and if we leave the A7s in there and give BB a range of QQ-JJ,88,QJs,J8s,T9s,AQo,KQo,QdJc, then it's a break even call. Adding JT to the mix makes it an easy call. There are doomsday scenarios of course.
  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 4,993 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2019
    The strangest thing about this hand is the button's 3B jam on the flop. Pretty much all of the button's value range will be raising your original flop bet because of how vulnerable almost all his value hands are. So, this 3B jam should almost always be bluffs

    He's not bluffing (it would be a bad bluff). He's either done slowplaying or resigned to gambling and not playing any more poker. He knows he can't really be in bad shape here. He doesn't want to see JhTh, but that's about it and it's not awful.
  • RCP Coach - Fausto ValdezRCP Coach - Fausto Valdez RCP Coach Posts: 859 ✭✭✭✭
    2/2 NLHE
    Effective stacks were 400. BB is pretty fish and Button is a calling station.

    I open raise to 22 with :Ac:Qs in the CO. Button and BB called.

    3 ways to a flop. Pot was $68
    Flop was :Qh:Js:8h

    BB checked.
    I C-bet to 63. Button called. BB checked raise to 163.
    I decided to call additional 100.
    Now, Button went all in with $350 and then BB decided to jam all in who covered me. I had $210 behind.

    Total Pot was 68 + 63 + 63 + 163 + 100 + 289 + 336 = 1082

    Based on the action, i thought i was up against 2pairs/sets/ straight and i was drawing dead. I tanked for a long time and i decided to fold even though i was getting about 5 to 1 on a call coz I felt i was beat.

    Button had :Ah:7h and BB had :Kc:Qd

    Should I have folded? Any thoughts? just a sick play by the 2 players.
    Thanks

    Hey @Sean_McDuffy123, given the player types around this board texture, my default advice is to bet to buy up some equity/ get rid of someone and then play from the turn going forward. Once we get XR from the bb who is perhaps most likely to have bluffs when he is aggressive, we simply need to see his possible range.

    Against the most obvious ones which includes made hands vs hands you beat which is possibly KQ and def draws, we need to recognize your largely ahead here. The main thing at this point of the hand, is to recognize that leverage (the threat for playing stacks) is right now.

    You do not benefit from calling and given the player behind you a better price, or simply an excuse to continue with his range. So largely you should be shoving over the top of the XR to get rid of the player behind you and forcing the other player to play for stacks.

    As a side note, i wouldn't even worry about the button that originally called your flop bet, cause as you mentioned he is a station and his calls are extremely wide.

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