Bad fold?

theagent77theagent77 Red Chipper Posts: 32 ✭✭
Seat 7 is the button
Seat 7: Hero ( 3079 ) -
Seat 9: Player9 ( 7347 ) - (VPIP23 / PFR 10/ 3BET 7.69 / 31 hands)
Seat 1: Player1 ( 4958 )
Seat 2: Player2 ( 4305 )
Seat 3: Player3 ( 20662 )
Seat 4: Player4 ( 4015 )
Seat 5: Player5 ( 5723 )
Seat 6: Player6 ( 6111 )
Player1 posts ante of [15 ].
Player2 posts ante of [15 ].
Player3 posts ante of [15 ].
Player4 posts ante of [15 ].
Player5 posts ante of [15 ].
Player6 posts ante of [15 ].
Hero posts ante of [15 ].
Player9 posts ante of [15 ].
Player9 posts small blind [60 ].
Player1 posts big blind [120 ].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Player1 [ :Qh:Ad]
Player2 folds
Player3 folds
Player4 raises [360 ]
Player5 folds
Player6 folds
Hero calls [360 ]
Player9 calls [300 ]
Player1 calls [240 ]
** Dealing Flop ** [ :2c, :Ah, :4h ]
Player9 checks
Player1 checks
Player4 bets [980 ]
Hero calls [980 ]
Player9 folds
Player1 calls [980 ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ :5h ]
Player1 checks
Player4 bets [2660 ]
Hero folds
Player1 folds
Player4 returned 2660
Player4 wins 4500


Villain can cbet with almost 100% of his range, so I feel I'm ahead his range and I call.
With the 5:heart: on the turn, Villain pushes me all-in, and I am quite sure he has something really valuable. He shouldn't have any 3 in his range.

I think he could make this move with KhKx,AA,KhQ,AJ+, some flush draws (rare) with Ace and kicker of hearts (Jh,Kh) some made flush like KhTh and KhJh.

With the benefit of hindsight, I realised most part of his hands that beat me are blocked both by A:heart: on the flop and by my A:diamond:Q:heart:

I have 6.6 to 1 pot odds to call, but I interpret Villain's move as really strong. Should have I called? What would you do?

Comments

  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 3,656 -
    edited August 2019
    I think your flop call commits you to playing for stacks. Also against the bulk of his range that is ahead you have 11 outs and you may even currently have the best hand.

    As a more general point, I think many of your tournament opponents tend to panic in spots like this, particularly when they have the betting lead. Sometimes you'll call here and be shown something like JxJh.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • MrFussMrFuss Red Chipper Posts: 142 ✭✭
    edited August 2019
    Agree with Kat. With top pair, an SPR of 2 and a call on the flop you're committed here, espcially with those odds on the turn.

    I probably would have shoved the flop.
  • theagent77theagent77 Red Chipper Posts: 32 ✭✭
    I suspected that. My biggest leak is my nitty attitude when it comes to play postflop with around 20 BB against aggressive opponents. Too many chips to shove pre, but too few chips to play comfortably on three streets. What if I had 3bet this hand preflop and shoved if I hit top pair? Would it have been more profitable?
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 3,656 -
    theagent77 wrote: »
    I suspected that. My biggest leak is my nitty attitude when it comes to play postflop with around 20 BB against aggressive opponents. Too many chips to shove pre, but too few chips to play comfortably on three streets. What if I had 3bet this hand preflop and shoved if I hit top pair? Would it have been more profitable?

    Preflop I think calling or 3-betting are both possible, but the plan of doing so to shove if you hit top pair seems sub-optimal to me, plus it's one that might never be realized. Like if you 3-bet to 900 or something, how is the opener going to respond? You actually have an efficient stack to 3bet-jam.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • theagent77theagent77 Red Chipper Posts: 32 ✭✭
    If I were to 3bet shove 20-25BB, I believe a thinking Villain would fold 22-66 and KJ. I would realise a lot of fold equity but, when he calls, I'm either literally crushed or slightly behind. Probably it's worth it. Is this what you would do?
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 3,656 -
    theagent77 wrote: »
    If I were to 3bet shove 20-25BB, I believe a thinking Villain would fold 22-66 and KJ. I would realise a lot of fold equity but, when he calls, I'm either literally crushed or slightly behind. Probably it's worth it. Is this what you would do?

    Somewhat dependent on the stats of the opener which you don't give. My general approach is that I try to exploit common mistakes. At this stack depth, many mediocre tournament players know that it's important to steal the blinds/antes somewhat regularly, but they screw up their ratio of raise-call:raise-fold against 3bet-shoves by overfolding.

    When the action gets to you there's 660 out there and you have 3064. That is an enormous fraction of your stack waiting to be claimed. So yeah given stack depth and the position of the opener I like just jamming, unless the 4-seat has a really low PFR.
    Moderation In Moderation

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