Rivering the Nuts 5-Handed

Cracked_Jacks11Cracked_Jacks11 Red Chipper Posts: 51 ✭✭
This weekend I played the following hand where I rivered the nuts, but I wasn't sure how to proceed to get the most value. I would love to hear how you all would have played in this hand. This is a live $1/$2 game, and the table has been playing fairly nitty. I am 29, and the next youngest guy there was in his low 60s. There had recently been a huge fish dumping money on the table, though, so we're playing fairly deep.

UTG+2 ($300) opens to $10. MP1 ($150), HJ ($425), and BTN ($300) all call. Hero ($450) is in the BB with :Td:8d and calls.

Flop ($50) - :Js:9c:5h Hero checks, UTG+2 bets $25, MP1 calls, HJ calls, BTN calls, hero calls. I briefly though about raising to thin the field, but closing the action and getting an extremely good price to draw I felt like calling was much better here.

Turn ($175) - :2d Hero checks, UTG+2 checks, MP1checks, HJ bets $25, BTN calls, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls.

River ($300) :7d Hero...?

Preflop and on the flop I felt like my decisions were fairly straightforward. Feel free to weigh in on those, but the turn and river were the main points I wanted to ask about.

First, the turn: I'm not closing the action, which is not ideal. However, the two guys still to act behind me have both been very loose-passive, which means I will rarely get raised when I call. The 2 on the turn also doesn't change the nuts, and it doesn't bring in any additional draws, so for that reason it seems even less likely I will get raised. That's why I decided to call rather than to fold or raise, since I was getting an insanely good price (9:1). I feel like those reasons make calling the best choice in this specific spot, but I'm willing to have my mind changed.

Now, for the river: I have made the nuts, and I am first to act in a large pot with 4 opponents. Obviously this is a great situation, but what's the best way to get value? I can see merit in checking, betting small, and also in jamming. This was the biggest part of the hand where I'm looking for feedback. Thanks!


  • RCP Coach - Fausto ValdezRCP Coach - Fausto Valdez RCP Coach Posts: 859 ✭✭✭✭
    @Cracked_Jacks11 ... if the players behind you are largely passive you should look into blasting everyone off their equity and taking this down since your hand will need it a lot

    however if at no point you feel like you cant raise your hand to take it down given the following variables ..
    • to many ppl to get trough
    • ranges are tight and strong
    • board texture wont allow many folds

    then by river it's also true these perceived strong hands will have a hard time folding, even more so when its multiple ppl, someone should have something. Once your there on the river just go ahead and lead. No point in building out a checking balanced line here when multiway 5 ppl.
  • HalHal Red Chipper Posts: 14 ✭✭
    What do you think are the merits (and risks) or checking, betting small, or betting large?

    Maybe the feedback will be better if we know what you were thinking? And maybe you'll answer some of your own questions if you articulate it to yourself.
  • Cracked_Jacks11Cracked_Jacks11 Red Chipper Posts: 51 ✭✭
    Thank you both for your responses.

    Merits of checking: there are 4 other people behind me, two of which have bet on previous streets. There is a decent chance I can check-raise and get my entire stack in and get called if anyone behind me bets.

    Merits of betting small: I'm more likely to get called, perhaps even by more than one player. Given the remaining stack sizes, this could possibly even provide more value than getting one caller for a larger bet.

    Merits of betting large/jamming: I get maximum value from any callers I get, it can look a little more "bluffy," (although I don't think that matters much in such a big multi-way pot), and people at the low stakes live games tend to get stubborn and call too much.

    Drawbacks of checking: if it checks all the way through, that's the worst possible result.

    Drawbacks of betting small: I doubt these players will raise with anything short of the nuts, so I'm very unlikely to get my whole stack in and could possibly miss out on some value.

    Drawbacks of betting big/jamming: I give hands like 2-pair or a small set a chance to fold when they would have called a smaller bet.
  • Cracked_Jacks11Cracked_Jacks11 Red Chipper Posts: 51 ✭✭
    Result: I checked, and the action checked through. So the worst thing that could have happened for me. My thinking was that I wanted to play for whole stacks, and over-bets are basically non-existent in this particular game. I thought the best way to get the most money in was to check-raise.

    In hindsight, though, I think I favor a smaller bet ($100-$120). I can get called much lighter that way, and quite possibly even get multiple callers since 4 other players have shown interest in the pot.

    I ended up scooping the pot. UTG+2 showed AJo, and HJ shows QQ played very passively. The other 2 players mucked without showing.

    I'm trying hard to approach this situation as objectively as possible, but I genuinely think that my check on the river was probably a mistake. In the moment it seemed natural to play "in flow" and check to the previous aggressors, but at these stakes I think rivers are played far too passively and it will check through far too often for this to be the best play. I've mostly convinced myself that betting is better, but I would still love to hear other opinions about sizing. Is my thinking correct that a smaller bet is likely better, or am I missing some reasons why a large bet/all-in would give better value?
  • RyanH1995RyanH1995 Red Chipper Posts: 67 ✭✭
    @Cracked_Jacks11 Based on how passively this hand played out I was very surprised to see one opponent had QQ and the other AJ. Based on their bet sizes on flop and turn I think it is unlikely anyone will put in a decent sized bet or even bet at all on the river so I agree it would have been best for you to bet somewhere around 1/3 to 1/2 pot on river. It seems like both opponents were too scared to go for value on the river but they had hands they definitely could have called with.

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