Should I have shoved the River here?

PsydwinderPsydwinder Red Chipper Posts: 26 ✭✭
BB: 235 BB (VPIP: 36.62, PFR: 15.49, 3Bet Preflop: 2.86, Hands: 74)
UTG: 101.5 BB (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 20.00, 3Bet Preflop: 100.00, Hands: 5)
MP: 166.5 BB (VPIP: 77.27, PFR: 45.45, 3Bet Preflop: 12.50, Hands: 23)
CO: 120 BB (VPIP: 32.89, PFR: 22.30, 3Bet Preflop: 8.77, Hands: 154)
BTN: 101 BB (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 50.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, Hands: 2)
Hero (SB): 444.5 BB

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Kc Th
fold, MP raises to 2 BB, fold, fold, Hero calls 1.5 BB, BB calls 1 BB

Flop : (6 BB, 3 players) Ks Kh Jc
Hero checks, BB checks, MP checks

Turn : (6 BB, 3 players) Qs
Hero bets 6 BB, fold, MP calls 6 BB

River : (18 BB, 2 players) Ts
Hero bets 436.5 BB and is all-in, MP calls 158.5 BB and is all-in

MP shows Jh Kd (Full House, Kings full of Jacks)
(Pre 73%, Flop 95%, Turn 94%)

Hero shows Kc Th (Full House, Kings full of Tens)
(Pre 27%, Flop 5%, Turn 6%)

MP wins 318.5 BB

Maybe I should have used a smaller size on the Turn, but this 6 max game was action packed as you can probably deduct from my stack at the beginning of the hand. The average pot in this game was 35BB or so when I joined the table and people were calling my shoves when I had the nuts the whole time. This hand was tilting and I lost all my profits along with another 4 BI's after this hand. I know that I donked the River. I really played the whole hand like a donk. The best I put MP on was AKo. What line would you guys have taken here? Thanks for the input.


  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Las VegasPosts: 5,326 -
    I dunno about the middle bit but I'd fold pre and not make a massive river overbet.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • PsydwinderPsydwinder Red Chipper Posts: 26 ✭✭
    TheGameKat wrote: »
    I dunno about the middle bit but I'd fold pre and not make a massive river overbet.

    It seems like I always pay for playing hands OOP even when I hit a monster lol
  • CashmoneyAKCashmoneyAK Red Chipper Posts: 10 ✭✭
    I agree with @TheGameKat that KTo should probably not be in your continuing range out of the SB. It just puts you in a lot of tough spots with reverse implied odds and not having much playability OOP.

    Going forward in this situation though, I think checking the flop to the aggressor is just fine w/ plans to X/R such a highly coordinated board. Once it checks through, I feel like it is definitely correct to bet for value (and protection? Would like some feedback on this). I'm not necessarily proficient when it comes to sizing but with the texture, pot size seems appropriate to me.

    On the river though, we can't just dump 400+ BB (effectively 158.5 BB) into a pot of 18BB. We want to extract value, but that means getting called by worse hands. Making it so so big will fold out essentially everything except KQ, KJ, AJ of spades. Kx with no boat or Ax likely aren't going to dive in there for that much, so you're essentially hoping for calls from A-9 (or worse) of spades, QQ, JJ, or TT ( IDK if TT makes the call on the turn) while hoping not to run into any of the above hands that beat you.

    I think a bet of around 2/3-pot size would be sufficient for the river, which in this situation would get a raise from your opponent and this is where it gets tricky. Assuming all of these hands were in Villain's opening range from MP and calling range on the turn, what would Villain be raising you with on the river? I would think QQ (3combos), JJ (3combos), TT (1 combos), KQ (3 combos), KJ (3 combos), KT (2 combos), and any nut flush, maybe A9 of spades (1 combo) and AJ of spades (1 combo). This list may be a little off but I'll go forward with it. With that being said, we beat 8/18 combos, chop 1/8 combos, and lose to 9/18 combos. If my raising range is correct for him, then we can just end up calling his raise on the river as opposed to raising.

    That was really long-winded and this is one of my first times contributing on a post. I am more than happy for feedback, but I hope my post helps!
  • PsydwinderPsydwinder Red Chipper Posts: 26 ✭✭
    It does help. I might try and study this all week being as I didn’t think about the combos and which I beat/chop with/ or lose to as in depth as you did in the comment. I got excited about the flush draw filling and should not have shoved. Ultimately though, both of yall are right. Don’t play hands I shouldn’t be playing OOP and I can avoid situations like this. Thanks for the comments guys.

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file