Super Loose Passive Table

LaRanaLaRana Red Chipper Posts: 9 ✭✭
Live Cash
Stack Sizes less than $25?-$350
Min $25 buy-in
$1 / $2 NLOP
6-10 Players

Hero observed table for 30 min. 16 hands all limped multi-way 4 or better players saw the flop

Hero entered first pot UTG AKs with 3x BB. Got 5 callers hard to make any move with this many if miss the flop

By the end of the session hero began opening for $10 (5BB) and still was seeing 4-6 callers.

While I loved the super loose fish at the table, I am more comfortable seeing a flop with 2/3 players.

What would be a good bet to enter the pot raised first in in order to reach the pain threshold? 9BB / 10BB? I am definitely going to be the most aggressive tightest and with the strongest ranges at the table. I want to see flops with one or two callers. I don’t want to chase everyone out just for the limped blinds

Comments

  • Doogal_DDoogal_D Red Chipper Posts: 5 ✭✭
    Honestly, you're going to have to just try out some different sizings and see. Make sure you pay attention to everyone's bet sizing in every hand (even when you're not in it) to see if you can get a good idea of what their preferred sizing is, then try at least doubling it. And if they're calling some bigger bets, be sure to take note of what they have if you're fortunate enough to see them get to showdown. I've only played one live cash game, but from all the player's experiences I've read (along with my experience in that game), 5bb wouldn't really make too many people shy away with anything other than some trashy hands, so I'm not surprised you got 5 callers by opening to 3bb in your first hand. In live cash, you generally will have to size up your bets from online anyways. I would try a minimum of 10bb and see the reaction. If it happens that everyone folds, so be it; maybe everyone just had bad cards. Try it a few times before you make up your mind if people are indifferent to that sizing. But more than likely, at least a couple of them will still call.
    Another thing that could allow you to go a bit bigger still is if you're playing tight, as you mentioned you were, and you're still getting 4 - 6 callers. That would make it seem that they:
    A) aren't aware that you aren't playing as many hands as them, and should thus have a stronger range; or
    B) they don't care, and they're just there to gamble.

    Good luck in your next live game.
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 2,402 -
    LaRana wrote: »
    Live Cash
    Stack Sizes less than $25?-$350
    Min $25 buy-in
    $1 / $2 NLOP
    6-10 Players

    Wassat?
    Moderation In Moderation
  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 4,749 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think it means Online Poker. ??
  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 4,749 ✭✭✭✭✭
    As Doogal said, each table is different, even each night with the same players can be different. You're just going to have to watch the reaction other raise sizes get at your table, and the reaction your raise sizes get, and adjust accordingly.

    If you read Jonathan Little, I think he'd say do nothing different - you're playing theoretically correctly. The more people enter the pot the fewer pots you will win, but the larger they'll be. Whether or not the increased difficulty in hand reading offsets this I can't say.
  • Jordan PowerJordan Power Red Chipper Posts: 479 ✭✭✭
    I think you should be sizing up higher than 3 BB if people are indifferent to that sizing. In most live games, 5 BB is where indifference seems to start to fade IMO.

    However, at some point, you aren't really able to control what people are going to do. They're going to call as wide as they're going to call in these games. As @jeffnc pointed out, you do not need to win the pots you enter that often to make profit.

    Ed Miller relates in one video I watched a few weeks back that if you enter a pot 6 ways, you should only expect to win 17% of the time. If you win these pots 20-25% of the time, you are going to make a lot of money in the long run even though it feels like you're losing a lot of pots.
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 2,402 -
    jeffnc wrote: »
    I think it means Online Poker. ??

    Hmmm. But it also says "live cash." I was wondering if this is actually NLO.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • LaRanaLaRana Red Chipper Posts: 9 ✭✭
    NLHE - No Limit Hold Em

    The NLOP is from national league of poker. NLOP.com. I had been playing there just before I wrote the post. Minor brain fart
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 2,402 -
    LaRana wrote: »
    NLHE - No Limit Hold Em

    The NLOP is from national league of poker. NLOP.com. I had been playing there just before I wrote the post. Minor brain fart

    Ha! Ok, thx.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 4,749 ✭✭✭✭✭
    TheGameKat wrote: »
    jeffnc wrote: »
    I think it means Online Poker. ??

    Hmmm. But it also says "live cash."

    lol oh yeah

  • LaRanaLaRana Red Chipper Posts: 9 ✭✭
    This game is at the local VFW. I watched the same group of guys tonight as i drank a couple of beers. They seem to never raise and all just limp preflop. Every now and then someone would buy in and attempt to raise and these gentlemen would simply call and see a flop. I am wondering if it may not be better to RFI 3bb+1bb / limper with a range that is likely the best given position. This will keep the pot manageable preflop. The trouble is going to be trying to C-Bet / Barrel Post-Flop with air. But I dont think these guys are going to be barreled off any pair or a good ACE no matter what the continuation bet is. Any thoughts?
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 2,402 -
    edited September 12
    I'd start at 5bb + 1bb/limper and move up to see what happens. I'm not too worried about a manageable pot preflop when I have range advantage. But you might want to avoid attempting to iso with hands that prefer higher SPR.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • LaRanaLaRana Red Chipper Posts: 9 ✭✭
    I’ll attempt the 5BB +1 BB / limper I’ll just have to play smarter when the hand sees three - five callers for a six way flop.
  • EazzyEazzy Red Chipper Posts: 970 ✭✭✭✭
    Games like this are great....Don't try to change them....
    If 5bb bets are getting 4 + callers enjoy..it...
    sure if 10bb will isolate some complete mainiac who plays 33% of hands for huge bets go for it but other wise don;t force there ranges tight...

    If no one is raising preflop and palyers play very loose consider limping some hands...this is the case when you can open limp 33 utg....

    yes you can't bluff ....sometimes if the flop checks through you can bluff the turn and river...

    Yes people call it bingo poker or whatever....who cares....casino's play bingo roulette and bingo craps by that definition.....and the seem to do fine...you have huge advantages in this game...(its just not that they fold to much)

    1) You have a stronger range..if 3 players regularly call your raise they are playing a 33% range (3 out of the 9 players beside you in a 10 handed game )

    Do you know what type of hands are included in 33%+ range....your range will dominate a lot of that...

    2) They are passive and they are playing multi way pots...guess what hand reading just got easy...

    From point 1 and 2 value betting just get very easy and very profitable...watch to see if 3+ players get to the turn and or river or if they tend to tighten up....
    If they stay loose value bet them to death..

    if they tend to tighten up....gear a few bluffs to turn and river after the flop checks through.....or check raise/ or raise small bets on the flop...you look very stong..and bet tells become even more valuable in multi way pots...

    Nits do much better in low stake poker then they should....and the main reason is the playing nitty in multiway pots is much closer to optimal poker and many low stake games can play this way...



  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 4,749 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Eazzy wrote: »
    Yes people call it bingo poker or whatever....who cares....casino's play bingo roulette and bingo craps by that definition.....and the seem to do fine...you have huge advantages in this game...(its just not that they fold to much)

    This is a good point.

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