Can I get some general Advice on this Hand?

CloutierCloutier Jacksonville, FloridaRed Chipper Posts: 21 ✭✭
Ok, this hand took place a couple hours into an $8 tourney on ACR. Late reg had just closed and I was feeling pretty good about my play so far.

However, I had recently been moved to this new table and noticed a guy had been playing very aggressively. I kinda thought he might be a bot at first but eventually, I decided that probably was not the case.

Either way, I figured I'd avoid him as much as I could until I had a better hand/plan to play against him. That didn't work out... and here we are.

I'm just looking for some general advice. Things I could've done differently preflop. Was the shove a bad idea idea given 2 spades on the flop? Just things like that, and any other advice is welcome and very much appreciated.

BrunoPexe (MP+2): 7.71 BB
pedroarthur22 (CO): 53.62 BB
KKichikawa (BTN): 29.79 BB
ginandjuice (SB): 17.58 BB
000111000 (BB): 36.92 BB
SenorRawPower (UTG): 15.31 BB
finsup03 (UTG+1): 14.54 BB
ishflop (MP): 25.93 BB <<<Hero
tacoo9 (MP+1): 26.1 BB

9 players post ante of 0.13 BB, ginandjuice posts SB 0.5 BB, 000111000 posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.62 BB) ishflop has :8C::6C:

fold, fold,
ishflop calls 1 BB, (UTG +2)
pedroarthur22 calls 1 BB, (CO)
000111000 raises to 2 BB, (BB)
ishflop calls 1 BB,
pedroarthur22 calls 1 BB

Flop: (7.62 BB, 3 players) :8S::3S::8H:

000111000 bets 3.81 BB,
ishflop raises to 23.8 BB and is all-in,
pedroarthur22 raises to 51.5 BB and is all-in, fold

Turn: (59.05 BB, 2 players) :TS:

River: (59.05 BB, 2 players) :JD:

pedroarthur22 shows :4S::JS: (Flush, Jack High)

(Pre 56%, Flop 25%, Turn 77%)

ishflop shows :8C::6C: (Three of a Kind, Eights)

(Pre 44%, Flop 75%, Turn 23%)

pedroarthur22 wins 59.05 BB


  • Doogal_DDoogal_D Red Chipper Posts: 11 ✭✭
    First off: I wouldn't have limped, but that's because I think it's way too hard to have a good open limp range. If you've got one built out, kudos to you (seriously). But generally, I'm letting 86s go when there are 3 bigger stacks left to act, and especially when there's 2 of them in absolute position. If they raise, I just gave them 1bb, unless it's somehow part of a limp-bluff shoving range for preflop in this scenario (I'm assuming it's not).
    Secondly: Villain shouldn't have shoved over your flop bet unless they had an overpair. They were gambling, and got lucky. They risked almost half their stack banking on:
    a) hitting their draw; and
    b) having the best flush draw

    That being said, I wouldn't have shoved I. Your position. I understand the urge of not wanting a flush to get there, but you have to look at your goal: to get as many chips as possible, particularly when there is someone so clearly willing to risk their own (with a big stack no less). 2 things I would consider:
    1. You're ahead of everything except better 8's and a pair of 3's. These could all certainly be in both of their ranges, though I would expect 3's to not really be in main Villain's range. In most scenarios (especially later in a tournament with stacks like these) you're good (unless you run into it, in which case it sucks. But that's a very small chunk of their hands). What is realistically calling you? The hands mentioned above, or a flush draw. They're aggressive, so you're only folding out the stuff you want them bluffing with (a 3x with a spade, overpairs, overcards). And they might have even have 7's or 6's that think you're going buck wild with overcards (with a spade).
    2. If the spade it going to hit on the turn, wouldn't you prefer to see it? It seems like the goal of your shove was to fold out all hands. I would want most hands to come along and give me their chips. Without seeing how this agressive player had played previously, it's hard to say if I would expect them to bluff shove a spade turn, but that would probably be a risk I was willing to take.

    In the end, I think you're probably losing your chips to this player regardless. But I would have called and saw the turn just to keep the overpairs, overcards, 3x and other pairs in the hand in the event that a non-spade came; and then you shove, you get those other chips (maybe you still lose on the river, but that's going to happen sometimes).

    Happy to discuss this further with you and others. Good luck going forward!
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 3,393 -
    edited October 2019
    Pretty much agree with @Doogal_D but one broader issue to keep in mind. You have 26bb. 86s plays really badly at that stack depth. Coupled with that you have stacks behind you that could either shove or make a decent raise that puts you in a terrible position. Basically nothing good can come from crawling in with this hand and your position is too early, particularly given the stack distribution, too profitably open-raise with it.

    As played I call or click back the flop. All shoving accomplishes is forcing sane players to have a monster to call.

    Edit: actually I guess overpairs might decide you're on FD, but I still think shoving loses value in most of outcome space.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • CloutierCloutier Jacksonville, FloridaRed Chipper Posts: 21 ✭✭
    I don't know why I was playing this hand to begin with. Especially oop, I normally don't but have been getting frisky lately.

    And I think when I shoved I just didn't really have a plan. You asked, 'what was my goal?' I honestly don't think I gave it any consideration at all.

    I think just blindly thought I could bully him into folding which was a dumb thought with an even dumber goal.

    Definitely could've waited for more info on the turn.

    I guess this whole hand started with a lack of thinking, and ended that same way.

    Anyway, Thanks for the help. I love hearing what other players think.

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