3 bet calling

ulysses27ulysses27 Red Chipper Posts: 34 ✭✭
I've noticed a new trend online which is when people 3 bet they are betting much larger. For example, I bet 3bb from UTG +1 and they 3 bet from CO to 12 to 15 bb. Based on my math and this could be wrong that means I would need 66% equity to call. Assuming my math is right, what is a strategy that should be employed in this situation with V 3 betting at 6-9%. Especially at 9% it seems to fold the hands that actually have equity and there's a chance to realize that equity plus if you just fold it seems you are making yourself very exploitable.

Comments

  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 2,158 ✭✭✭✭
    Your math is wrong.
  • LeChiffreLeChiffre NetherlandsRed Chipper Posts: 542 ✭✭✭
    Couple things
    1. What Red said
    2. We are not exploitable if we fold. We are only exploitable if we do so too much
    3. We should fold more to larger 3bets than to small 3bets. Compare a 3bet jam to a min 3bet. In the first case we want to fold a lot, and in the latter we only want to fold very little getting such a great price.

    So you could either defend a bit tighter than to a more standars 3bet size, or:
    - open smaller
    - move tables
    - incorporate limps
    - etc
  • ulysses27ulysses27 Red Chipper Posts: 34 ✭✭
    Red wrote: »
    Your math is wrong.

    Sorry math isn't my strong suit. So if I bet 3bb and i get 3 bet to 15bb that means i have to call 12 to win 18 not including the blinds. That works out to I think 1/1.5 or 40% which means I should only be calling with premium holdings like jj+ AK but if their 3 bet percentage is 9% or higher then I broaden my range since they are at times 3betting light. The other question I have is why would someone 3 bet so large? Your only denying equity and rarely getting value. So either its fear based betting or a weaker holding that needs protection. Does that sound right?
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 2,633 -
    edited November 5
    Facing 3-bet frequencies that high, constructing a sound 4-bet range is going to matter. Additionally I don't think calculating equity is particularly helpful when most of the money is left to play.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 4,167 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Denying equity is all the rage for a certain subset of players. (You also see this with pot sized bets in many spots that don't call for it.) It's the return of polarization after it went to sleep for the last few years, and is a reasonable counter to all the pot controlling strategies that have clogged up the online sector and which don't really make that much sense given rising rake.
  • EazzyEazzy Red Chipper Posts: 983 ✭✭✭✭
    A couple of thoughts facing big 3 bets.....
    Stack to pot ratio matters more just because calls often calls cause smaller SPR's.....so stacke size becomes more improtant...(against a small 3bet weather you have 100bb or 200bb makes little difference most of the time because you often get 6 or higher Spr's....with either stack....

    But once the bets get bigger, with shorter stacks (100bb or smaller)...spr's get to the one bet committed levels...

    Second...against bigger,,.3 bets....as there is smaller SPR and more money in the pot to pick up.... 4betting often becomes a better option...


  • ulysses27ulysses27 Red Chipper Posts: 34 ✭✭
    TheGameKat wrote: »
    Additionally I don't think calculating equity is particularly helpful when most of the money is left to play.

    Sorry Kat, I'm a little confused by this. If I'm not using equity to determine this call, how do I make sure it's a plus ev play?
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 2,633 -
    edited November 5
    ulysses27 wrote: »
    TheGameKat wrote: »
    Additionally I don't think calculating equity is particularly helpful when most of the money is left to play.

    Sorry Kat, I'm a little confused by this. If I'm not using equity to determine this call, how do I make sure it's a plus ev play?

    Would you ever call preflop with 88 knowing your opponent has AA? Under what circumstances?

    See also: https://forum.redchippoker.com/discussion/12924/is-there-a-way-to-calculate-if-my-bets-are-or-ev
    Moderation In Moderation

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