KK in the BB

sfx_beigssfx_beigs Red Chipper Posts: 25 ✭✭
Hey all,

While not a new player, I am new to seriously studying and I'm very much in the stage where I'm probably overcompensating when trying to plug leaks, learn new plays etc... That said, this hand came up in my last session and I'm curious how many mistakes I made here or if I'm hung up on results oriented thinking.

Game: $40-100NL at Hollywood Park in LA. $1-2 blinds. $5 drop on the flop. It's the first orbit so I have no real reads on anyone yet and I'm just getting to know the texture of the table. There aren't any huge stacks and nobody is playing super short. Stacks of those involved range from $50-$150. I haven't played yet so I still have my $100 buy in.

I get KhKs in the BB.

4 players limp including the SB. I raise to $15. 3 players call (SB folds).

Flop: Ac4c9d. (Pot: $56).

I check. I've always played a lot of LLHE and C-betting into 3 people always seems to bite me in the ass. Against 3 people, I find it hard to believe I'm not up against an Ace. I decide to check and see what happens behind me. If it checks around a brick comes on the turn, I'll bet. Sure enough, it checks around.

Turn: Tc.

Well... not a brick. So I check again. And.... it checks around again.

River: 5c.

I check again. 2nd player checks. 3rd player bets $12. The 4th player calls. I fold.

Obviously, I'm not posting this if my Kings weren't good if I showed down. As I said, I'm still at that stage where I swing wildly between too aggressive and too timid so I'm curious how best to hand this situation.

Thanks,
sfx

Comments

  • LeChiffreLeChiffre NetherlandsRed Chipper Posts: 595 ✭✭✭
    edited December 2019
    I think this hand was played fine, and your flop plan was good, though you might consider betting the turn a bit more:

    - Every player has made a non-mandatory check. While they certainly could check the flop (and SB the turn) with a weak ace, they have made the decision not to bet
    - For the same reason, the Tc is not necessarily so bad. It actually creates more possible draws that a villain can call with (like combos with Kc, 87, QJ) than it actually completes. Again, you can discount flushes to some extent for same reason as above.
    - Tx might decide to call you
    - A bit of protection against weak one-club hands and hands like 67

    Not saying you should definitely bet turn, but just something to consider.

  • Cracked_Jacks11Cracked_Jacks11 Red Chipper Posts: 51 ✭✭
    edited December 2019
    As a fellow $1/2 player, I'll share my take on this situation (and others like it). By and large players at this level play way too many hands and call too often. My general rule of thumb at an unknown table, then, is to play a tight range and avoid bluffing much. This is especially true in multi-way pots, which there will be a lot of. When in a precarious situation like the one you shared, proceed with caution.

    All this to say, I think your play here was fine. Honestly, I think I would play it exactly the same way. Betting KK on that flop feels like you'll get called by any hand that beats you and fold out almost everything worse. The turn and river are ugly cards for you, so there's very little harm in just throwing this one away and waiting for another profitable spot to arise.

    *side note* I haven't played in a lot of different locations, but this sounds like a terrible game structure. $5 drop on every flop, and a 50bb cap? If I were in your position, I would be looking for a different place to play.
  • sfx_beigssfx_beigs Red Chipper Posts: 25 ✭✭
    Thanks for the feedback. LA suuucks (the $5 drop is mandatory and there’s usually another $1 if you see the river) and I don’t really have the bankroll for the $3-5NL games. Even then the cap is $300.

    The only place that has a 100BB buy in is the Bike and the games are very nitty. This game is one of the better structures in town. The $100 game at Commerce has $2-3 blinds.
  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 4,942 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2019
    Against 3 opponents playing passive, wide ranges, there is a lot of fit-or-fold and value-oriented poker. This is simply not a money making situation. There are plenty of other opportunities for profit. I know you can wait a long time for KK, but really what you're waiting for is overall opportunity, not just preflop starting hand.
  • CASEY MCASEY M Red Chipper Posts: 167 ✭✭
    These capped games in CA are terrible. I play 2/3 because you can get a full BI at most places. Even playing extremely well, beating these capped games will eat up your roll.
  • blindraiseblindraise Red Chipper Posts: 242 ✭✭
    When youre describing live hands you usually refer to the blinds to define the game (i.e. "I was playing 1/2 at the Wynn"). In this case youre playing a capped 1/2.

    Online play is often limited to a 100bb max buy in, which is why those games are usually referred to by their max buy (i.e. "I was crushing 10nl so I moved up to 25nl")

    When describing your hand, one of the most important bits of info is the effective stack size. This is the smallest stack in play at the time action arrives to you(although it helps to kno the stack size of every player involved.).

    You said the shortest stack in the hand is $50 (but which position is the short stack?), which would entice me to just shove over the top. If you dont think youll get called, I would choose a larger raise (most 1/2 players are inelastic, meaning their decisions are unaffected by bet sizings) to say $25. This should narrow ranges, but sometimes it doesnt, which is where awareness of your opponents tendencies helps.

    As played, you missed a bet on the turn imo. You need to call $12 to win $80, giving you 8:1 odds. This is where studying range vs. range equities helps.l(what is V1 betting less than 1/4pot on the river? What is V2 calling with?).
  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 2,221 ✭✭✭✭
    CASEY M wrote: »
    These capped games in CA are terrible. I play 2/3 because you can get a full BI at most places. Even playing extremely well, beating these capped games will eat up your roll.

    If you play 40bb capped games the same as 200Bbb capped games, you sure gonna have a hard time making it a win
  • BFSkinnerBFSkinner Red Chipper Posts: 16 ✭✭
    You are committed to any non ace flop with a 1.3 SPR. By the time the 4th club hits, you cannot overcall. Reload and enjoy the loose passive game.
  • BigFudgeBigFudge Red Chipper Posts: 17 ✭✭
    Given that you were new, had no reads and no image, playing it passively is not a horrible line. Although I might still take a stab on the flop. I like C betting this flop most of the time if I’m on a tight table or have a tight image, especially if calling stations are not in the hand and you think you might fold out the Axs...

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