Bluff catch?

Artvandelay74Artvandelay74 Red Chipper Posts: 4 ✭✭
2/3 $300 max bet. I have about $450 and main V covers. She is a middle aged woman who has been pretty straight forward but running super well. I have been active but getting beat up. Always coming up second best and have run a couple of large bluffs that didn’t work. In short my image is kind of trash right now. I’m UTG +1 with A9 :heart I make it 15 to go and get 5 callers including V in the SB. Flop is :7d:9d:3S: I figure to have the best hand but it’s vulnerable to turn overcards so I bet a little large $50. V calls as does UTG. Turn is :6c Checks to me and I bet $150. V1 checks raises to $350. UTG tank folds. Hero?

Comments

  • Jordan PowerJordan Power Red Chipper Posts: 530 ✭✭✭
    I think A9s is fringy to open in EP. I typically ditch the suited aces that aren’t wheel or broadways in EP. Just my opinion there.

    The flop sizing I think is too large. We are using a sizing where it’s not clear much worse will call us. Moreover, we are bloating a pot with one of the worst (maybe THE worst?) made hand we’ll have on this board. I guess 98s and 78s would be worse but those at least have some backdoor potential. So I understand the thought that our hand is vulnerable, but choosing to use a smaller size (maybe 30?) can get us calls from a wider range and it keeps the size of the pot more manageable. My two cents.

    I’m also thinking about whether a check/call would work better. My initial thought, which I’m struggling to back up atm, was I don’t want to actively commit any more $ to this pot 6 way without range advantage. That is likely my bias as I wouldn’t have A9s to begin with here so take it with the appropriate grain of salt.

    On the turn, you use another larger sizing MW which actually sets us up for a very small river bet if you get called. I would go tiny here again if we are going to bet. But here I am fairly certain we take a free card and navigate rivers. The 6 completes a few draws. 8T got there, 45 got there. SB given the price could also choose to defend 58.

    Moreover, we are now behind 96 and 76, both of which SB could very reasonably have in addition to the flopped 2 pair and sets.

    So when we get check raised as this is one of our worst bluff catchers, think this is an easy fold. We could bluff catch with combos of AA and KK without a diamond which would be better. It’s also not inconceivable that SB has an overpair and wants to get spicy.

    But in general: the turn x/r at low limits is super strong generally. I would be looking to bluff catch only the stronger parts of my range here. As you are far from the strongest parts of your range, I would just ditch it.
  • Chris_VChris_V BoiseRed Chipper Posts: 73 ✭✭
    FOLD! In the 2/3 games I've played a bet this big just screams value! She could already have a straight or at least have a very nice combo draw right now like 8dxd or Tdxd so even when you have her beat she has a ton of equity.
  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper Posts: 4,308 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Review betting concepts, bluffcatching here is the least of your worries.
  • Mr_Big_StackMr_Big_Stack Over The RoadRed Chipper Posts: 33 ✭✭
    To me it starts with your opening hand selection. This is a very week hand to open in EP. Were hands routinely going to the flop MW 4+? Then more's the reason to fold PF. Were you expecting it to fold to the blinds? You have been active and caught bluffing more than once. Were you caught off guard by the number of calls?! How were you expecting to play A9 most likely OOP throughout the hand?

    If I remember correctly, 3-handed to the flop it's 50% both of your opponents missed. 4-handed it's 33% that all three of your opponents missed. I don't have the math skills to figure out the % 6-handed but it's not encouraging!

  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 5,001 ✭✭✭✭✭
    2/3 $300 max bet.

    What does this mean? The largest bet or raise amount at any particular time is $300? Seems pretty meaningless, but whatever.
    In short my image is kind of trash right now.

    That's certainly a matter of perspective. You have an image, it's just how you use it.
    I’m UTG +1 with A9 :heart I make it 15 to go

    Not too good, especially given your image.
  • BFSkinnerBFSkinner Red Chipper Posts: 118 ✭✭
    Fold Pre. A9s in UTG+1 is garbage unless the flop is 999 or monotone. If you do hit gin, who do you expect to pay you off? On the other hand, you are set to pay off many better aces and sets. If you say "but I can get away from this hand if needed" then I ask why are you playing it in the first place?

    V "is running well and is playing straightforward" and makes the max bet she can at the table after you made a strong flop and turn bet.

    You have a weak top pair. Sets, straights, and overpairs crush you, 79, and 67 are in play. You are thinking about bluffcatching what exactly? Diamonds have 18% equity against you, even a naked eight for a OESD has 8 good outs. Also, I am being generous that a straightforward player will jam a OESD or FD when you have shown strength on 2 streets.

    Turbo fold unless you hate money.
  • EazzyEazzy Red Chipper Posts: 1,018 ✭✭✭✭
    I don't mind raising a9s utg in a sooft game that no one squeezes in, and often goes multi way. But you got to understand multi way pots oop play. By the way you played this hand...don't raise A9s utg...

    5 players calling you on this flop...consider makeing a small bet 1/3 pot or even checking it to get more information....

    The thing is most players will play this very straight forward....if you bet large they put you on an over pair...and when you bet the turn you are overrepping your hand...

    bet small... 3 callers get to the river...2 callers...think about betting small again....6 ok card but not great...you want to keep hands like KT in...and can't price out draws anyway with out charging the rage,,,aim to get value from t9 type hands..and make some draws pay you something...

    When raised easy fold...

    Think about how you exploit these players.....
    they call with too wide a range....(well dah 5 players out of 9 called you)
    These ranges tend to hit flops weekly.....
    They play week hits very elastic...call small bets wide...fold big bets...
    They tend to blast off when they have big hands...and bluff way to little....
    In multiway pots they play very very striaght forward...



  • Doogal_DDoogal_D Red Chipper Posts: 11 ✭✭
    Agree with jeffnc about A9s not being a good choice of open given your image. You're UTG+1 and it's a bluff-type hand especially from OOP.
    The flop is $93 (not counting rake) and you bet over 1/2 Pot into 5 opponents with a TPTK but no draws. This is a big bet with this many opponents. Multi-way pots typically need to be treated differently than heads-up pots. If you are betting this much you should have a chance at making the nuts by the river. Since you don't, you should have bet smaller (maybe 25-30% pot). Decent FDs, overpairs, OESDs, and possibly any GS+BDFDs (given the number of opponents) are likely to still call your bet. You're unlikely to take this pot down on the flop, so no point inflating the pot when you have to see the turn with a vulnerable TP.
    I'm not going to comment beyond that as the bet sizing is the main issue through this hand. You aren't in the "pot committed" spot if you don't bet so big on the flop (and then again on the turn).
    All this is to say I agree with persuadeo's point about reviewing betting concepts rather than focusing on whether you should bluff catch in this scenario (i.e. you shouldn't be in this spot).
    Doesn't mean my specific assesment is right though. I may get destroyed in the comments to follow this.

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