The Health of Poker Requires People Quit Being [email protected]#$%^&

Wanted to share a quick experience with the forum and attach it to a plea for manners.

As some of you know, I rarely play live poker anymore, largely because of health issues. Today was a good day for my various ailments, so a friend and I went down to play the 6pm tournament at SouthPoint. It's the structure around which I based some of the specifics of my intro tournament series.

I am not a sociable person, but particularly when I notice nervous newbies, I contribute to the table banter and try to be pleasant. I'm also not someone who typically has a target on their back for the venom of others, partly because in the early levels I play tight and thus don't get the "you keep raising my blind, buddy, see where that gets you..." line of BS.

Anyway, ITM I make what is a pretty standard 16bb 3-bet jam with ATo over a looseish opener. Folds back to him and he tanks, then finally calls and flips up KQo. Flop comes KQ and I don't spike broadway. Just another day at the office.

However, before the board has even run out, my opponent, who is now chip leader, starts berating me for my 3-bet, explaining what a terrible play it was. Since I've been doing this for decades, I was amused more than anything and quietly thanked him for his input, which seemed to puzzle him. But I realized that if a) I gave a crap about what people think of me or b) was relatively new to the game, this is exactly the sort of behavior that would convince me to spend my time on a different hobby.

So folks, next time you bust someone from a tournament, adopt that Sphinx-like expression that roughly conveys "guess this is my lucky night", which simultaneously communicates condolences. The health of the game requires gracious winners.
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Comments

  • Bigb4919Bigb4919 Red Chipper Posts: 16 ✭✭
    My opinion:
    I think a lot of people play poker to try to prove how much smarter they are than everyone else
  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper Posts: 4,268 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A gentle and understandable opinion, but if the health of the game required that, it would have disappeared a long time ago.
  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 2,253 ✭✭✭✭
    It's not proper to poker. In any environment with competition, you will encounter such people - being poker, board games, warhammer, chess, etc.
    What can you do? Nothing, shitty people are and stay shitty people ; trying to punish or educate them is between losing time and counterproductive.

    What to do ? Don't feed the troll, keep going in your life and focus on the other 99% which are people with a neutral to good personality.
  • RussRuss Red Chipper Posts: 129 ✭✭
    Kat, I've met you at Red Chip events, and if you're not a sociable person, I must be a real asshole. :-)
    TheGameKat wrote: »

    I am not a sociable person,

  • RussRuss Red Chipper Posts: 129 ✭✭
    I agree in part with Red's opinion, but....

    I'm a competitive person and have over the years been involved in a LOT of competition-like hobbies and sports, and the poker pool is by far the worst behaved in which I've participated. Bridge, backgammon, competitive climbing, judo, ballroom dancing, 3-gun competition. I've always been amazed how rudely poker players treat each other, and especially the people that they can easily beat. It's kept me off the tables and fully involved in live poker for many years.
    Red wrote: »
    It's not proper to poker. In any environment with competition, you will encounter such people - being poker, board games, warhammer, chess, etc.
    What can you do? Nothing, shitty people are and stay shitty people ; trying to punish or educate them is between losing time and counterproductive.

    What to do ? Don't feed the troll, keep going in your life and focus on the other 99% which are people with a neutral to good personality.

  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 3,171 -
    persuadeo wrote: »
    A gentle and understandable opinion, but if the health of the game required that, it would have disappeared a long time ago.

    I dunno man, there's a wide gulf between ailing and dead. Is it a coincidence that 20 years ago I'd see 2-3 women at every live table I played, whereas now it's usually 0 or 1.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 3,171 -
    TheGameKat wrote: »
    persuadeo wrote: »
    A gentle and understandable opinion, but if the health of the game required that, it would have disappeared a long time ago.

    I dunno man, there's a wide gulf between ailing and dead. Is it a coincidence that 20 years ago I'd see 2-3 women at every live table I played, whereas now it's usually 0 or 1.

    Anyone suggesting I scared them off will get a 48-hour time out.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper Posts: 4,268 ✭✭✭✭✭
    God damn it, I missed that low-hanging fruit.

    BUT SERIOUSLY FOLKS, twenty years ago limit games were in full swing and the fair sex not only was, but continues to be a bigger part of that scene.
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 3,171 -
    persuadeo wrote: »

    BUT SERIOUSLY FOLKS, twenty years ago limit games were in full swing and the fair sex not only was, but continues to be a bigger part of that scene.

    I think we've had this discussion before, trying to tease out which parameters are causally related.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • accessdeniedx2accessdeniedx2 Red Chipper Posts: 55 ✭✭
    I dont ever say anything. Even an "I'm sorry" when I suck out. Unless we've been friendly at the table, I just keep to myself.

    I even made a 450$ over bet on the river and my opponent turned his top paired card in my face (he was my direct left) and berated me because he folded. I still didnt even look his direction, but I wanted to!

    I've noticed most people can be jerks, so at a table where I know no one, I usually say nothing and keep to myself.
  • BigFudgeBigFudge Red Chipper Posts: 35 ✭✭
    I’m with Kat here. Even if it doesn’t kill the game there most certainly are players, usually losing players who play for fun, who will stop coming back or decide on their first couple of trips to not make it a hobby to begin with. Under no possible scenario does that make the game better, and thus must make it worse.

    With that, I also agree that those ego based players who play to feel good about themselves will always be there and probably won’t stop berating players as a practice. Thing is, many of these players are also pretty terrible and usually good for the game because their ego prevents them from actually improving.

    My solution is to embarrass these ego players a little bit, a light joke that’s funny to the big fish so they don’t feel bad about their play and said with humor but yet calls him out just enough to where they get the hint. Sometimes it works long enough for me to finish my session, although don’t expect it to last. It doesn’t hurt to stack these ego players and poke them a little bit back, it’s always fun to tilt one of these asses....
  • MnpokerMnpoker Red Chipper Posts: 127 ✭✭
    There also comes a point where people will not play with you. I was playing at South Point about 10 years ago in a 2-5 game and the board called a name and the dealer and several players said oh shit. Player comes over and 5 players get up to leave. Dealer calls over the floor and tells the floor that if this player is sat at this table the game will break. Floor asked the players why they were going to leave and in one form or another they all said that they would not play with the player being sat do to his behavior. Floor said to the player that he had been warned about his behavior in the past and that he could leave or wait for a different table and if there was any issues with his behavior at the 2nd table he would be banned for a month
  • BigFudgeBigFudge Red Chipper Posts: 35 ✭✭
    This is especially true with games that involve a high percentage of local regs like South Point. Large rooms like Commerce generally don’t get to that level of tight knit regs until you get into the higher limits. The asses are also not usually regs either so the floor is less willing to do something about it.

    I’ve never been a floor tipper but I’ve lately been experimenting (or was experimenting) with squeezing a few bucks from my dealer tips every session and giving the floor a red chip and a quick conversation. It might be a +EV tool if you step away from the table and alert the floor that there is an ass abusing the fish. I really do believe it’s on us to protect the fish because generally the room doesn’t do that enough.
  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 4,993 ✭✭✭✭✭
    TheGameKat wrote: »
    I dunno man, there's a wide gulf between ailing and dead. Is it a coincidence that 20 years ago I'd see 2-3 women at every live table I played, whereas now it's usually 0 or 1.

    That's because they played Omaha, and Omaha will turn everyone into a grumpy old man if you play long enough.
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 3,171 -
    jeffnc wrote: »
    TheGameKat wrote: »
    I dunno man, there's a wide gulf between ailing and dead. Is it a coincidence that 20 years ago I'd see 2-3 women at every live table I played, whereas now it's usually 0 or 1.

    That's because they played Omaha, and Omaha will turn everyone into a grumpy old man if you play long enough.

    Once again we see the allegorical connection between poker and life.
    Moderation In Moderation

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