Vegas Poker and Pandemic Threats

In The DarkIn The Dark Red Chipper Posts: 241 ✭✭✭
edited March 1 in Live Poker Hands
Live poker seems to be a great environment for airborne transmission of most any infectious disease. Vegas is a nexus for most every locality on the globe to send its tourists, both sick and healthy. I'm generally not an alarmist but I'm unable to gather enough information to make a pragmatic risk assessment of my continued play on The Strip. I also have the added complication of a household which include the higher risk elderly cohort.

Good news for me: I can take a year off poker. Bad news: I love the game and March Madness is close and always the most lucrative time of the year.

Please share your thoughts and any risk assessment that's mostly free of emotion or agenda (unlike the MSM).

My current sense of the situation: it's a one outer for huge stakes but I'm mostly guessing. I'm very good at knowing what I don't know.

Comments

  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 3,654 -
    I just wrote an article on this very topic that is in production.

    Basically, Vegas is about the worst place to be in the US. I cover myself in hand sanitizer on the rare occasions I play live, but if you are in daily contact with someone in a high-risk group, I'd recommend a mask. Or just take a month or two off. Hopefully.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 3,654 -
    One possibly useful perspective is that for the last couple of months you've been under much greater threat from our home-grown flu virus, but I know sensible people who are concerned about the coranavirus in Vegas, plus the Dow doesn't typically plummet without cause.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 2,354 ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 1
    Live poker seems to be a great environment for airborne transmission of most any infectious disease.
    If you're thinking about covid-19 : transmission is not airborne (unlike the flu for example, common - and deadly -disease).

    Just have a rigorous hygiene and wash (correctly) your hands and it would be ok.
    https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public
    TheGameKat wrote: »
    ...but if you are in daily contact with someone in a high-risk group, I'd recommend a mask.
    Mostly useless against covid-19. (Said by experts well as WHO).

    Yet if you want to wear a mask to protect yourself against droplets from someone sick sneezing/coughing, you've to wear the right mask. Big mistake is wearing a "surgical mask" : despite all the fuze, it doesn't protect you (from others), it protects only others (from you/your droplets).
    The right mask you would wear would be N95 or better. Yet they are expensive and uncomfortable (because seal your mouth/nose from the environment).

    Again,here is a rigorous health and washing hands (correctly!) enough
  • In The DarkIn The Dark Red Chipper Posts: 241 ✭✭✭
    edited March 1
    Red wrote: »
    Live poker seems to be a great environment for airborne transmission of most any infectious disease.
    If you're thinking about covid-19 : transmission is not airborne (unlike the flu for example, common - and deadly -disease).

    Just have a rigorous hygiene and wash (correctly) your hands and it would be ok.
    https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public

    From WHO site: "Maintain social distancing

    Maintain at least 1 metre (3 feet) distance between yourself and anyone who is coughing or sneezing.

    Why? When someone coughs or sneezes they spray small liquid droplets from their nose or mouth which may contain virus. If you are too close, you can breathe in the droplets, including the COVID-19 virus if the person coughing has the disease.
    "

    I almost always seat change away from coughing opponents. But they will always get in that first sneeze or coughing fit before I can act.

    I'm not comforted by the WHO information. As an aside, I distrust any organization that includes the word 'world' or 'international' in it's name.

  • In The DarkIn The Dark Red Chipper Posts: 241 ✭✭✭
    TheGameKat wrote: »
    I just wrote an article on this very topic that is in production.

    Please link it when available
    Or just take a month or two off. Hopefully.

    I've decided on an indefinite hiatus to gather information.

  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 3,654 -
    Thanks to @Red for the detailed info, but I disagree slightly on the mask issue. They're generally regarded as superfluous for COVID-19 on the grounds that people are rarely in the "spray zone" of others. One notable exception is the poker table. Further COVID-19 is physically large (400nm-500nm) and thus relatively easy to block. Any mask that's tuned for that size particle will work.

    But yeah, wash your hands.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 3,654 -
    Red wrote: »
    Live poker seems to be a great environment for airborne transmission of most any infectious disease.
    If you're thinking about covid-19 : transmission is not airborne (unlike the flu for example, common - and deadly -disease).

    Just have a rigorous hygiene and wash (correctly) your hands and it would be ok.
    https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public

    From WHO site: "Maintain social distancing

    Maintain at least 1 metre (3 feet) distance between yourself and anyone who is coughing or sneezing.

    Why? When someone coughs or sneezes they spray small liquid droplets from their nose or mouth which may contain virus. If you are too close, you can breathe in the droplets, including the COVID-19 virus if the person coughing has the disease.
    "

    I almost always seat change away from coughing opponents. But they will always get in that first sneeze or coughing fit before I can act.

    I'm not comforted by the WHO information. As an aside, I distrust any organization that includes the word 'world' or 'international' in it's name.

    Got you covered.

    https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/index.html
    Moderation In Moderation
  • In The DarkIn The Dark Red Chipper Posts: 241 ✭✭✭
    Second (or third) hand information suggests the WSOP is not happening this year. I cannot vouch for the source here except to say it's a solid rumor.
  • Rich57Rich57 Red Chipper Posts: 112 ✭✭
    This might be helpful but does not seem to bode well for live poker over the next few months:

    The author is James Robb, MD UC San Diego

    Subject: What I am doing for the upcoming COVID-19 (coronavirus) pandemic

    Dear Colleagues, as some of you may recall, when I was a professor of pathology at the University of California San Diego, I was one of the first molecular virologists in the world to work on coronaviruses (the 1970s). I was the first to demonstrate the number of genes the virus contained. Since then, I have kept up with the coronavirus field and its multiple clinical transfers into the human population (e.g., SARS, MERS), from different animal sources.

    The current projections for its expansion in the US are only probable, due to continued insufficient worldwide data, but it is most likely to be widespread in the US by mid to late March and April.

    Here is what I have done and the precautions that I take and will take. These are the same precautions I currently use during our influenza seasons, except for the mask and gloves.:

    1) NO HANDSHAKING! Use a fist bump, slight bow, elbow bump, etc.

    2) Use ONLY your knuckle to touch light switches. elevator buttons, etc.. Lift the gasoline dispenser with a paper towel or use a disposable glove.

    3) Open doors with your closed fist or hip - do not grasp the handle with your hand, unless there is no other way to open the door. Especially important on bathroom and post office/commercial doors.

    4) Use disinfectant wipes at the stores when they are available, including wiping the handle and child seat in grocery carts.

    5) Wash your hands with soap for 10-20 seconds and/or use a greater than 60% alcohol-based hand sanitizer whenever you return home from ANY activity that involves locations where other people have been.

    6) Keep a bottle of sanitizer available at each of your home's entrances. AND in your car for use after getting gas or touching other contaminated objects when you can't immediately wash your hands.

    7) If possible, cough or sneeze into a disposable tissue and discard. Use your elbow only if you have to. The clothing on your elbow will contain infectious virus that can be passed on for up to a week or more!

    What I have stocked in preparation for the pandemic spread to the US:

    1) Latex or nitrile latex disposable gloves for use when going shopping, using the gasoline pump, and all other outside activity when you come in contact with contaminated areas.

    Note: This virus is spread in large droplets by coughing and sneezing. This means that the air will not infect you! BUT all the surfaces where these droplets land are infectious for about a week on average - everything that is associated with infected people will be contaminated and potentially infectious. The virus is on surfaces and you will not be infected unless your unprotected face is directly coughed or sneezed upon. This virus only has cell receptors for lung cells (it only infects your lungs) The only way for the virus to infect you is through your nose or mouth via your hands or an infected cough or sneeze onto or into your nose or mouth.

    2) Stock up now with disposable surgical masks and use them to prevent you from touching your nose and/or mouth (We touch our nose/mouth 90X/day without knowing it!). This is the only way this virus can infect you - it is lung-specific. The mask will not prevent the virus in a direct sneeze from getting into your nose or mouth - it is only to keep you from touching your nose or mouth.

    3) Stock up now with hand sanitizers and latex/nitrile gloves (get the appropriate sizes for your family). The hand sanitizers must be alcohol-based and greater than 60% alcohol to be effective.

    4) Stock up now with zinc lozenges. These lozenges have been proven to be effective in blocking coronavirus (and most other viruses) from multiplying in your throat and nasopharynx. Use as directed several times each day when you begin to feel ANY "cold-like" symptoms beginning. It is best to lie down and let the lozenge dissolve in the back of your throat and nasopharynx. Cold-Eeze lozenges is one brand available, but there are other brands available.

    I, as many others do, hope that this pandemic will be reasonably contained, BUT I personally do not think it will be. Humans have never seen this snake-associated virus before and have no internal defense against it. Tremendous worldwide efforts are being made to understand the molecular and clinical virology of this virus. Unbelievable molecular knowledge about the genomics, structure, and virulence of this virus has already been achieved. BUT, there will be NO drugs or vaccines available this year to protect us or limit the infection within us. Only symptomatic support is available.

    I hope these personal thoughts will be helpful during this potentially catastrophic pandemic. You are welcome to share this email. Good luck to all of us! Jim

    James Robb, MD FCAP
  • driller1driller1 Red Chipper Posts: 27 ✭✭
    Thanks for the input. Guess the 2020 WSOP is out.
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 3,654 -
    Many thanks for tracking that down and posting it. Rather a grim picture.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 3,654 -
    Here is the article I wrote on the topic. It's already getting overtaken by recent developments, but there's a colorful picture.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • BoilerAceBoilerAce Red Chipper Posts: 429 ✭✭✭
    Well, no worries now about March Madness being the most lucrative time of the year....
  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 2,354 ✭✭✭✭
    I don't know if you're following the measures taken in Europa ? Depending on the country, meeting with more than 100 person (Switzerland) down to more than 5 persons (Austria) are now forbidden. Cafés, restaurants and all public place are then closed or very restricted - casinos included.
    I'd expect such measures to hit USA soon - if not already.
  • BoilerAceBoilerAce Red Chipper Posts: 429 ✭✭✭
    edited March 15
    All Indiana casinos are closing for at least 2 weeks starting on 3/16/2020.
  • SicSemperSicSemper Red Chipper Posts: 112 ✭✭
    Wynn and all MGM properties suspending operations starting Tuesday. Won't be long for the rest of them to follow suit.
  • In The DarkIn The Dark Red Chipper Posts: 241 ✭✭✭
    BoilerAce wrote: »
    Well, no worries now about March Madness being the most lucrative time of the year....

    "Spring Sanity"

    No need to credit me.
  • EazzyEazzy Red Chipper Posts: 1,018 ✭✭✭✭
    not much change in Atlantic City.....closing some shows and casino night clubs...but restaurant week is driving business. Poker still pretty strong.
  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 2,354 ✭✭✭✭
    Situation in US will be worst than in Europa because of your very low health insurance coverage and intox from Trump "It's not that bad of a sickness".
    Sure it's mortal only for weak people (comorbid and 60+ years old), yet it's highly contagious and can easily hit those people. Especially if health coverage / test rate are very low. Brace for impact.

    If you haven't showed yet:
  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 5,001 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Red wrote: »
    from Trump "It's not that bad of a sickness".

    And therefore I submit that there is definitely still March Madness (not Spring Sanity as suggested). It's just not basketball this year.

  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 3,654 -
    Let's keep the politics out of it, please.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper Posts: 4,308 ✭✭✭✭✭
    He literally just asked for no politics.

    Let me distract you. Since you are a true las vegas low stakes grinder, why don't you come on the poker zoo podcast and tell us all about the best and worst of it?
  • In The DarkIn The Dark Red Chipper Posts: 241 ✭✭✭
    persuadeo wrote: »
    He literally just asked for no politics.

    Let me distract you. Since you are a true las vegas low stakes grinder, why don't you come on the poker zoo podcast and tell us all about the best and worst of it?

    Politics has taken away my income. It seems like it's worth a mention.

    I'd like to take you up, just as I'd like to be in broadcast media, but my allergies make it almost impossible for me to hold a conversation without hacks and coughing.

    I've listened to all your podcasts and my story is in there somewhere, a little here, a little there. Thanks for the hours of information. The blog is also must read stuff.
  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 5,001 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Politics has taken away my income. It seems like it's worth a mention.

    I'm sure he meant partisan biases, not actual facts. I'm sure the UIEGA law of 2006 was and is fair game to discuss, for example.

  • Dean MDean M Red Chipper Posts: 184 ✭✭✭
    persuadeo wrote: »
    He literally just asked for no politics.

    Let me distract you. Since you are a true las vegas low stakes grinder, why don't you come on the poker zoo podcast and tell us all about the best and worst of it?

    Politics has taken away my income. It seems like it's worth a mention.

    I'd like to take you up, just as I'd like to be in broadcast media, but my allergies make it almost impossible for me to hold a conversation without hacks and coughing.

    I've listened to all your podcasts and my story is in there somewhere, a little here, a little there. Thanks for the hours of information. The blog is also must read stuff.

    He has an excellent editorial staff to remove all those distractions.
  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 2,354 ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 23
    Lol what? You American really have "funny" politicians 😅

    "This is where Goodman (Mayor of LV, Democrat) came up with something really new, saying, “How do you know until we have a control group? We offered to be a control group.” Goodman started talking about the importance of control groups for vaccine testing before Cooper interrupted, “You’re offering for the citizens of Las Vegas to be a control group...?” At this point, Goodman confirmed, “I did offer, it was turned down."

    Not sure it's a good sign for LV residents... or for any gamblers there. Or for LV and gambling there in general.

    Edit: @TheGameKat I know it's somehow politics; yet this discuss the pandemic threat for LV locals and visitors.

    Source: IFLScience
    and


  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 3,654 -
    edited April 23
    I'll let this go on the grounds the mayor of Vegas is traditionally a comedic position held by wives of mob bosses, and not really a political job in the conventional sense.

    FYI: this can have no impact on 95% of LV gaming/gambling, for the simple reason that The Strip is not within the city of Las Vegas.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 2,354 ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 24
    TheGameKat wrote: »
    FYI: this can have no impact on 95% of LV gaming/gambling, for the simple reason that The Strip is not within the city of Las Vegas.
    Ho ?!
    *checking*
    Ha yeah... strange ! I always thought these like Paradise were just districts of city Las Vegas, with maybe only Henderson as separate city/community.
    This doesn't makes sens / is very strange to me; as it should makes city management much more complicated.

    Thanks for pointing this out - every day learning smth new!
    I though I spend much times in LV, in fact I was in different cities aka Paradise and Spring Valley... I've to update my poker resume hahaha
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 3,654 -
    The clockwork efficiency of Swiss cantons is not something that melds with the US frontier spirit ;)

    Besides, the important decisions tend to get made by the Nevada Gaming Commission.
    Moderation In Moderation

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