Table deals in live games

Venkvisw22Venkvisw22 Red Chipper Posts: 4 ✭✭
In the poker rooms that I play in India, seldom 2 players or more will go all in on the flop or on turn and then discuss deals. Run it twice, Run it Thrice and Run it 2+1 (2+1 is where the board will be completed twice...if it's a chop between the players then it is not run a third time...otherwise it is run a 3rd time)

I could not find any material related to this i.e. how to approach such a situation. Some players run it once when they are way ahead and ask for deals only when they are drawing or not sure where they stand. It is infuriating at times when players do this.

I personally am consistent....I don't deal selectively....I will offer / accept a deal every time...the only contention may be which of the deal.

I feel there is a scope to invite expert opinion on this topic...there are several questions which arise. Some of them are:

1. Should deals be taken at all? If we have shoved correctly (i.e. based on our assessment of equity and related maths) then why should deals be taken at all...should it not be run it once always....However this increases short term variance .... very painful during a downswing.
2. Players who always take deals selectively i.e. when it favours them they deal otherwise they run it once....against such players should we also not follow a strict run it once policy.
3. Which deal works best on different holdings and board textures.

These are some of the top of the mind queries related to the topic... I am sure more will get added as the discussion evolves.

Looking forward to opinions from experts as well as my fellow redchippers.

Comments

  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 3,171 -
    Since your long-term expectation is not impacted by the decision, you need to look to other factors.

    I'm only in this position on the rare occasions when I play PLO live. I never suggest running it twice, but if asked I base my decision on the following:

    1. Will running it twice preserve a "fun" atmosphere?
    2. How will this impact stack depth?

    If the person asking to run it twice has just emerged from his hoodie for the first time all session and is short-stacked, I will typically decline. Otherwise I'm usually fine accommodating the request.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 4,993 ✭✭✭✭✭
    GameKat mentioned the only 2 real considerations, assuming by "stack depth" he includes players busting out. Only allowing running it once is bad for business - i.e. the host of the game - because it increases players busting out, which increases games breaking.

    The reason casinos don't allowing running it twice, usually, relates to the first reason, I assume. Even though running it twice is actually quite fast, some grumpy players grumble about how it slows the game down.

    So, I always do whatever the other person wants. I never alter it based on whether I'm ahead or behind, regardless of misguided advice I hear about when you should go run it twice and when you shouldn't. I always prefer to run it multiple times.

    The one rare time when I think it could actually make a difference is if there's a player who is very risk averse and I want him to fold. If it's a big all in call and he knows I'll only run it once, he might be more inclined to fold. This tactic in generafl favors the player with a bigger bankroll and/or more risk tolerance. I know some players who will only run it once with certain other players (although some of this is just plain being petty for some historical slight.) Even so, I've never refused to run it twice.
  • EazzyEazzy Red Chipper Posts: 1,016 ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 22

    It actually does matter (beside time and variance consideration) in a number of cases. @jeffnc touched on this.

    Casino's, and lotteries make their profits by selling Variance for EV. Lag pokers players often depend on some of their profits the same way...

    Picture a maniac lag tard. He buys in huge, and shoves ATC.

    Now he shoves..everyone folds and you have K7 off....and he shoves for 8000 in a 10-20 game...(it actually happened to a friend of mine). Many players would fold...you have a +EV...55% against his range...but for 400 big blinds...

    Now lets say this maniac is willing to run it 100 times....it becomes an easy call....

    So if you are Lagy and depend on exploiting the fact that players over fold (often in places they believe they have marginal +EV) you want to run it once...(exploit their willingness to trade EV for variance)

    If you are thinking of moving up....and have a choice of choosing a game where you run it twice often or one that never does....then probably better off choosing one where you will run it twice...(lowering variance without giving up EV ) makes moving up easier.

    As poker has a really bad feedback curve...for many players (most of us) who learn at least in part by feedback...running it twice may improve the feedback a bit...
  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 2,253 ✭✭✭✭
    I personally never deal or any kind. I but mention it the first time and never change it.
    I'm no fan of doing it sometimes but others no. I think that's the worst as it unfair villain to run it several times when they are coin flipping (lower losses) but run it once when significantly ahead (reducing the risk of sharing the pot).
    Either everytime or never. Like chopping the blinds: always or never.
    jeffnc wrote: »
    GameKat mentioned the only 2 real considerations, assuming by "stack depth" he includes players busting out. Only allowing running it once is bad for business - i.e. the host of the game - because it increases players busting out, which increases games breaking.

    The reason casinos don't allowing running it twice, usually, relates to the first reason, I assume. Even though running it twice is actually quite fast, some grumpy players grumble about how it slows the game down.
    Nah
    You forgot the most important - maybe the only one - for the casino: any deal slow the game down. Slower game = fewer hands = smaller rake.
    (This works for tips too.)
  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 4,993 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Red wrote: »
    Nah
    You forgot the most important - maybe the only one - for the casino: any deal slow the game down. Slower game = fewer hands = smaller rake.
    (This works for tips too.)

    No, that's not true. Deals don't take that much time for two reasons. One they don't happen all that often, and two they're pretty quick.

    The main thing that poker rooms don't want is busted players and broken tables. This hurts worse than any slight occasional slowdown for deals.

  • Doug HullDoug Hull RCP Coach Posts: 1,838 -
    edited March 23
    Some of them charge a dollar for Running it Twice.

    Also, in Philippines, they have insurance charts on the wall where players can buy insurance at specified rates from other players. These are great percentage plays for the guy SELLING the insurance...

    This does exactly what you said, keeps players in the game longer.
    Co-founder Red Chip Poker,
    Author Poker Plays You Can Use
    Author Poker Workbook for Math Geeks

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