I'M A FISH--or am I?

sonchosmilaxsonchosmilax Red Chipper Posts: 9 ✭✭
Working my way through CORE and loving the material! Just got through Level 1, so apologies in advance if any concepts in this shared hand are more directly addressed later in the course.

I've been playing in daily play money tournaments to practice staying disciplined with preflop ranges, recording hands, classifying flops, and other basics. Trying mainly to just win pots at this point--given it's for play money, though, I understand that player tendencies may be wildly different from what I'm used to at my home cash games.

In the early stage of a recent tournament, I found myself with the largest stack at the table (~20k) with blinds at 250/500 (w 50 ante). 9 other players. A couple stacks around 15k, one around 5k, and the rest around 8-10k.

I'm in UTG+2 and the player to my right (smallest stack ~5k) limps in. I raise to 1.5k with :Ac:Td . Everyone folds except the limper who calls. So far I'm fairly confident I made a standard play here (maybe could have preflop-raised one more big-blind given the limper but I got the result I wanted--isolating a limper--so the less chips risked the better, right?).

Pot is now 4250 and the flop comes :QC::8C::6H:

Villain checks. I check behind. In retrospect I probably could have taken this away with aggression here, but looking at my 13%-preflop raising range, this would mean I'm betting the literal bottom of my PF range. Wouldn't that suggest that I'm c-betting almost 100% of the time here? Should I really be doing that? The more I go over this, the more I think a check is a better move mathematically--but knowing how this hand actually turned out I can't help but imagine I could have gotten a fold here (but it would have been a fold from a worse hand, so that's not really that valuable right?). The tossing-and-turning begins on this street.

Turn comes :7H:

Villain bets 750, less than 1/5 the pot. These small bets in tournaments really throw me for a loop. I figure I have a strong bluff-catcher, villain could just be semi-bluffing a flush or gutshot draw here, and given the action on the flop, there's a chance both my Ace and my ten are live, not to mention the fact that a nine on the river would give me a straight (add those outs up and I have more than enough equity to call such a small bet). Or is my logic flawed here?
From another perspective, I figure I really shouldn't fold much of my range here to such a small bet on the turn. Admittedly, I may not fully understand Minimum Defense Frequency, but the math I'm doing tells me I should be defending with 85% of my range, in which ATo seems to belong now that it has a gutshot draw (right?). Then again, should I consider that I've already given away enough information by checking back the flop?
Lastly for this street, given that Villain only has around 1.2k left behind, should I consider raising this turn? This way I'm charging desperate flush draws the maximum and hoping they call while forcing folds from weak pairs? OTOH, how many 6x, 7x, 8x combos would villain really have in this spot (UTG+1 position calling a 3x raise preflop)?

I called Villain's bet and wiped beads of sweat from my forehead.

River comes :TH:

Villain bets all-in: 1.2k. Again, a small bet considering the size of the pot, but still maximum pressure, and I have no ability to raise anymore. My hand's improved to second-pair top-kicker and I really don't think villain could have a Queen here. The major problem is that *both* backdoor flush and backdoor straight draws just came in. So here I am considering that Villain could be desperately firing a missed club-flush draw, could have just hit this ten and been bluffing a gutshot on the turn, or could be trying to represent the made straight with a weak pair.
Again, I talk myself into a call given MDF and odds and blah-blah and Villain turns over :KH::9H: and I lose a big pot (ended up doing decently in the tournament overall but this hand keeps haunting me).

My first instinct here was to kick myself. In my journal I literally wrote "I'M A FISH." But the more I go over this hand and look at ranges in Equilab the more I find justifications for each action I took on each street. I mean, Villain won't always have a King-high flush on this river, and I guess the question is will Villain have enough bluffs here for me to justify calling? Is that the right question? Or should I be approaching this differently?

Comments

  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 3,849 -
    What you do here is very dependent on the complete distribution of stacks at the table and the proximity of the money bubble. A chunk of possible parameter space would dictate a preflop fold.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 2,396 ✭✭✭✭
    Answer: YES

    Reason:
    In the early stage of a recent tournament, I found myself with the largest stack at the table (~20k) with blinds at 250/500 (w 50 ante). 9 other players. A couple stacks around 15k, one around 5k, and the rest around 8-10k.

    I'm in UTG+2 and the player to my right (smallest stack ~5k) limps in. I raise to 1.5k with :Ac:Td .

    Solution:
    staying disciplined with preflop ranges

  • sonchosmilaxsonchosmilax Red Chipper Posts: 9 ✭✭
    Huh, interesting. I didn't realize ATo could be considered foldable, even from this early of a position. I should probably reconsider my EP preflop iso-raising ranges...

    Thanks!
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 3,849 -
    Huh, interesting. I didn't realize ATo could be considered foldable, even from this early of a position. I should probably reconsider my EP preflop iso-raising ranges...

    Thanks!

    The long shadow of Ed Miller and his assertion that offsuit broadways are junk casts darkly over this forum. And with good reason IMO.

    That said, in general terms ATo becomes more attractive short-stacked. The problem here is that you'll likely have a bunch of 3-bet shove stacks behind from this early.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 3,849 -
    edited April 5
    Since you actually asked about postflop, let me also address that.

    Your primary problem is that the SPR is so low you can't do anything particularly sophisticated here. SPR < 1. Given that you threaten V's tournament life, simply jamming flop probably has some merit.

    Don't even think about raising the turn. V cannot bet-fold here. I mean, this opponent clearly isn't very good at poker, but I just don't see anyone bet-folding that shallow. I actually think folding is an option here, because typically V throws in the rest on the end. So ask, if V jams turn, do I still like my call? Sure MDF, balance, exploits... Look. You're playing against someone who limp-calls K9s off a 10bb stack. Don't overthink it.

    As played, call river.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 2,396 ✭✭✭✭
    Huh, interesting. I didn't realize ATo could be considered foldable, even from this early of a position. I should probably reconsider my EP preflop iso-raising ranges...

    Thanks!
    You should consider the situation/position more instead of ATo in a vacuum (which is borderline too tho)

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