RCP Study Group - Donk Flop hand
this is a hand from our study group.
6 Handed
Button (95 BB) opens 3BB
SB (116 BB) calls
BB
(116 BB) calls
3 way to Flop. 9BB in pot (8.5BB after play money rake lol)
FLOP


SB checks
BB donks 4.25BB (1/2 pot)
Button folds
SB calls
Heads up to Turn 16.5BB in pot
Turn:
Board:



SB checks
BB bets 10BB (60% pot)
SB calls
River 36BB in pot
River
Board




SB Checks
BB ?
Thoughts on the flop donk bet?
I am the BB. Personally I am betting a good flop. Middle pair plus 2nd nut flush, if I get raised I have equity. I maybe take it down sometimes which is fine. But I really want to start building a pot now.
Turn: I think I like my bet still, I may get some value from a bunch of hands that can be drawing still.
River - do we take showdown value with 8 or turn our hand into a bluff here? I think there are some 8x hands and busted hearts that we beat. I dont know what better folds, maybe 99, not sure if JJ is in this range from SB.
Spoiler:
6 Handed
Button (95 BB) opens 3BB
SB (116 BB) calls
BB


3 way to Flop. 9BB in pot (8.5BB after play money rake lol)
FLOP



SB checks
BB donks 4.25BB (1/2 pot)
Button folds
SB calls
Heads up to Turn 16.5BB in pot
Turn:

Board:




SB checks
BB bets 10BB (60% pot)
SB calls
River 36BB in pot
River

Board





SB Checks
BB ?
Thoughts on the flop donk bet?
I am the BB. Personally I am betting a good flop. Middle pair plus 2nd nut flush, if I get raised I have equity. I maybe take it down sometimes which is fine. But I really want to start building a pot now.
Turn: I think I like my bet still, I may get some value from a bunch of hands that can be drawing still.
River - do we take showdown value with 8 or turn our hand into a bluff here? I think there are some 8x hands and busted hearts that we beat. I dont know what better folds, maybe 99, not sure if JJ is in this range from SB.
Spoiler:
I checked, SB wins.
SB

Btn AQo
SB


Btn AQo
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Comments
I think betting here only costs you money and you are ahead of his drawing range that folds anyway.
I also like to check raise many flops when I have pair + flush draw (with 2 suits in my hand and 2 on the board) in early position However when its a weak pair and weak flush draw, I know that @porter and others prefer either betting out or check calling, and hate check-raising. Paging Porter to see if he still checks this board.
Of course he's going to check. Leading merged is awful as a default.
Don't donk - it is called a donk bet for a reason:) Slight disclaimer there are some spots when it can make sense but this KXX flop isn't one of them.
Think of it this way the BTN raiser does pretty well on KXX, and will likely CB decent amount. This should encourage you to go for XR and XC lines as you will make much more EV from the BTNs light CBs(air/weak hands that will just fold to your donk)
If the opposite conditions are true you can sometimes have a donking range. That is when you have range advantage and the PFR is unlikely to CB a high frequency.
check-call or check-raise?
Is this due to the formation or the disconnected flop, or both? My guess is that the flop being disconnected should move us away from the polarization of a x/r.
Larger cbet = more incentive to x/r
Smaller cbet = more incentive to call
In GTO solverland it is the opposite
I haven't run a sim on this but I would be willing to bet in a HU BTNvBB model this combo would be mixing XR and XC.
Very likely.
So if we decide the hand as merged it is XC. And XR becomes the worst of the 3 options.
And if we decide the hand as solid equity, then XR becomes the best of the 3 options, and pro advice.
So here we have middle pair, 2nd kicker, and 2nd nut flush draw. Where does this fall? When we have two suited cards flop pair + flush draw, and we are looking at our pair, kicker, and flush draw, how do we divide betweeen categories?
That's not the formation here. The SB has called, which is unnecessary and is concentrated to certain hand types, including broadways that don't necessarily want to be 4bet. (you hear this exact spot discussed on the Just Hands pod i was on, not conincidentally, Jack named KJ as a hand that fits this flatting decision.)
So when the SB is involved, when he really shouldn't be often, the value of this hand diminishes yet has both SDV, blocker qualities, and position. On top of all this, since you have better hands I would categorize the preference being to check call. I'm sure there's a counter argument but will take this side for the purposes of discussion.