RCP - Study Group - 4bet, minuscule SPR

sfx_beigssfx_beigs Red Chipper Posts: 54 ✭✭
A hand from tonight's study session. As usual, the players are all Red Chippers who are at least trying to be good players. There's been a decent amount of playing back and working on 3-bets etc...

Blinds 50-100.

Cutoff - 6300
Button - 9800

Cutoff opens for 300
Button 3-bets to 900
Cutoff 4-bets to 2800
Button calls.

Flop (Pot=5434) - Qd 4s 5c

CO (3500) - checks
BU (7000) - checks

Turn: Td

CO - checks,
BU- bets 1/2 pot.
CO - folds.

The conversation centered on the preflop and immediate flop action. With the stacks so short, should the cutoff's 4bet have just been a shove? And if not, on the flop, is the CO shoving on any flop?

I'm curious to hear what ranges we're thinking for each player and based on the stack sizes and SPR, what part of the Button's range would fold that flop and is it enough for to justify the cutoff's shove on the flop if they have air. Likewise, what is the button's calling range and is it enough to justify the shove if the cutoff is looking for value?

Thanks,

beigs

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Comments

  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 3,407 -
    I've only just woken up so I'm playing by sense of smell rather than mathematical analysis, and it smells like CO is supposed to shove flop.

    Preflop I'm unclear how to construct a 3-bet/call range for BTN at that depth.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 2,317 ✭✭✭✭
    TheGameKat wrote: »
    Preflop I'm unclear how to construct a 3-bet/call range for BTN at that depth.
    That's why I'm always wary of 60-85bb deep stacks. It's very tricky to play them. You cannot really push to hard to shove preflop as you will be overshoving ; yet you're not really deep enough to have any kind of maneuverability postflop. For that I'm all on board, there is no room for a 3b/c call here.
  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Both players essentially conspire to try to lose EV here.

    At this depth, 300/900/2800 (2800!) could be 250/600/1500 or such, leaving sensible decisions ahead for both players.

    Turn 1/2 pot bet is equivalently ineffective, laying a price that even AK bluffs need to call facing xr.
  • sfx_beigssfx_beigs Red Chipper Posts: 54 ✭✭
    The range question is the one I'm having difficulty with. The discussion we had was that the cutoff should just 4-bet shove. I argued that on that particular flop, there was no hand in the Button's range that wouldn't call the half pot C-bet shove the cutoff would make. I didn't feel like the Button would call the 4-bet with less than TT+ and AK. Maaaaybe AQ. In any of those cases, I don't think the button folds on the flop so it's best for the CU to just get the money in now. If they have a made hand already, great. If they have a big Ace, they get to see all five cards with decent equity.

    Thougts?

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