AA left money on the table?

MaximiliusMaximilius Red Chipper Posts: 5 ✭✭
NL Holdem 125/250
BTN (12.699)
SB (4.228)
BB (7.392)
UTG (17.802)
HJ (9.250)
CO (11.482)

Dealt to Hero: :AD::AS:

UTG Folds, HJ Calls (250), CO Folds, BTN Calls, SB Calls, Hero Raises to 750, HJ Calls, BTN Calls, SB Calls

Flop (3.180): :8s:6c:3c
Hero cbets 2.000 (Rem. Stack: 4.892), HJ Calls (Rem. Stack: 6.750), BTN Calls (Rem. Stack: 9.949), SB Folds

Turn (9.180): :8s:6c:3c:Kc
Hero shoves 4.892, HJ folds, BTN folds

Hero wins: 9.180

Given the stack size and the calling on the first street I had problems during the hand of putting HJ on a proper range. I was thinking maybe a mid pocket pair (77, 55, 99) and BTN maybe two broadways. To be totally honest, my hand reading skills are still not the best though and I just wasn't sure.

Generally the K on the turn would've been a good card as it would help Kx combos to connect and stay in the hand. However, since it was the third spade and I had none whatsoever I was a bit unsure about the strength of my hand. I was also thinking about what I had left behind and how even on this street I had barely a half pot stack to work with. Trying to rep a made hand my goal was to move the opponents off this hand and for me to pick up the already decent sized pot.

I'm not sure about the bet sizing of this hand, especially with somewhat shallow stacks. I thought this was a good hand to get some value with and as this table had been playing quite cautiously and too high raises preflop resulted in mostly folds, I didn't want to shove right away to lose out on the action.

Not sure if the shove on the turn was the best move and would love some input on if I should have tried to string my opponents along, or maybe even check to induce a bluff and then shove?

Let me know your thoughts, thanks!


  • BFSkinnerBFSkinner Red Chipper Posts: 153 ✭✭
    I am assuming you are in the BB and this is a tournament.

    You 3x raise in BB after 4 players have entered the pot. This seems low for your poor position post-flop and your high incentive to get money in now. Raising to 1250+ likely thins the field or even takes the pot down pre-flop which eliminates your variance.

    Once the entire table calls, you have a SPR of 1.5 which makes for an awkward C-Bet. As played, I think you can just shove the flop, as once you bet you are never folding. Enough 99-JJ calls you here as well as a little 8x and club draws.

  • MaximiliusMaximilius Red Chipper Posts: 5 ✭✭
    Thanks @BFSkinner! Yeah I was BB and it was a MTT. I get what you're saying but my goal with a hand such as AA was not to have everybody fold preflop to actually get a little bit of money in the pot. Hence my 2000 bet on the flop.

    Maybe that's still the wrong approach to this but my thought is I want to keep 2nd best hands in as long as possible while effectively building a pot. With the 3rd :club on the turn I'm not sure if I panicked a little, or still made the right choice to shove.

    With regards to your comment on just shoving on the flop - I did have SPR in mind and was pretty much committed but given my stack size I wanted to extract a bit more value before going all in.

    I'm just caught unsure between if I panicked about the flush draw or if it didn't matter and betting down street by street would've been more profitable if you know what I mean?

  • ulysses27ulysses27 Red Chipper Posts: 203 ✭✭
    The reason to raise so much preflop is that AA looses a lot of equity multi way. It's a much better hand heads up. Check in equilab and see the difference. As far as the shove, your most likely only getting called by better but you don't have too much choice given stack depths. A flop shove is better because it gives draws not a great price to call. You might want to do some range work in flopzilla to see what type of hands called pre-flop and flop and then folded turn. This will help with these spots in the future.
  • MaximiliusMaximilius Red Chipper Posts: 5 ✭✭
    Thank You @ulysses27 - that makes sense. Definitely something I need to work on a bit more!
  • MnpokerMnpoker Red Chipper Posts: 199 ✭✭
    Maximilius I agree that preflop should have been much larger, roughly your standard open plus 1 BB per limper minimum. You are looking to take the flop heads up. On the flop there are 2 straight draws and 2 flush draws, this is why you want to be heads up. On the flop is jam time as you need to close out the draws that let in. It is not about leaving money on the table. You got lucky to win with AA in a 4 way pot.
  • MaximiliusMaximilius Red Chipper Posts: 5 ✭✭
    @Mnpoker appreciate the feedback. I guess you're right there. Thanks!
  • Blank_Sniper1Blank_Sniper1 Red Chipper Posts: 15 ✭✭
    I would have been more cautious after the flop. That board is not great for A A on the flop against two players. You have a range advantage but not the nut advantage.
    This hand is a case where you are way ahead or way behind or they have a draw with plenty of equity. Would have made a pot size bet pre flop as well. which is 3 x the last be plus all the other money in the pot

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