Playing flush draws OOP

wnoc001wnoc001 Red Chipper Posts: 12 ✭✭
This is just a general question about a pretty common spot that I feel I'm not using an optimal strategy. I want to disregard nuances pertaining to stack sizes, villain's frequencies, and other situational variables and focus on general principles.

So let's just imagine we're going to HU to the flop, hero defending the BB against a single PFR, and we flop a flush draw. PFR will barrel flop and turn (when we check call) but the flush completes on the river. Now there doesn't seem to be a good way to get additional value for our flush:
If Hero checks, PFR checks behind.
If Hero leads, PFR folds
(Or Hero makes a small block bet to induce a bluff-raise which sometimes works in micros but probably not often enough to qualify as a general strategy)
If the above situation holds true most of the time, does it makes check-calling the turn -ev since you don't have the implied odds to get paid? Thus check-calling flush draws doesn't seem to be a particularly profitable line, if at all.

If Hero check raises the turn, this increases FE and improves our value when we get called and hit (though we probably still don't get called on river). But if we always check-raise our draws on the turn, then we're putting ourselves in a lot of bad river spots when we get called and miss. And similar problems if we check-raise flop.

Maybe all I'm saying is that playing OOP sucks, which is true but not very insightful. I think I mix up all these different lines when I flop flush draws OOP but the lingering pain from the times I wish I would have chosen a different line given the vantage of hindsight probably leaves me with a memory bias to the tune of "I never seem to pick the best line!" And this got me wondering if there's a community consensus about the default or general best line to take with these hands e.g. mostly check call, check call, flip a coin check or bet river, while leaving a portion of check-raises on turn/flop.


  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Las VegasPosts: 4,745 -
    So what you're asking about here is range construction, which is a deep as the Mariana Trench. In the precise spot you describe, it would be useful to have a flop check-raising range.
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  • RoblivionRoblivion WisconsinRed Chipper Posts: 339 ✭✭✭
    In spots like this, I find it's helpful to have a river donking range with a large sizing with both flushes that got there and well-chosen bluffs. Then if V is folding all the time he'll be making mistakes.

    Of course, if you believe he's never paying you off on the river you should probably reevaluate whether you should be calling the turn with a draw.
  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper Posts: 4,367 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Answering this question is possible but will tend to give you the wrong answer, as flush draws are just a subset of your range, which will behave in ways governed by the bigger picture.

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