3 Bet 150BB Deep 6Max

dominicaldominical Red Chipper Posts: 9 ✭✭
edited July 14 in Online Poker Hands
This is the first time I am posting a hand on any forum so I will try to give as much info as I have from HUDless Global Poker. The game has been very agressive preflop and post flop with lots of limpers and iso raising. The blinds seem to be the tightest players at the table and don't seem to be getting too out of line compared to the other three players. Just to give a little insight into the table dynamics, a few hands later the UTG limper in this hand 3bet (160BB deep effective) to $1.60. I jammed with AA knowing he would call and he did with 44.

http://mysmp.me/h_pjc

Don't know how to get text based hand history so here is the link.

So anyways back to my thoughts on this hand. I iso on the button to $.30 which is a little smaller because I'm on the button and have been getting 3bet a little more than I probably should expect. I get 3 bet on the large side of but we are deep and I think that if I hit 2 pair plus I can expect to stack him a large percentage of the time. I call flop with open ender and backdoor flush draw. On the turn I hit 3rd pair and I'm just not sure what to do here as now the straight draw is will be less likely to get paid off and I'm only ahead of AQ and AK so I fold. I know everyone will say fold preflop and I think my call is questionable against this player. There are two points that I am not sure about 1. Should I raise the flop bet and 2. Should I fold the turn as played or continue.

Comments

  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 3,654 -
    Let's start preflop. It's possible that your small iso actually emboldened the BB to 3-bet. But that's minor.
    I think raising the flop has merit, but you need to place that in the context of ranges. In other words, develop raise/call/fold ranges for this spot, given your preflop range.
    I'm never folding the turn.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • dominicaldominical Red Chipper Posts: 9 ✭✭
    Hey Kat thanks for the quick response.

    The break even percentage is about 58% so we should continue quite often especially btn vs. bb. I think his range is 99+, AQo+ and KQs+, & AJs+ and some suited connector bluffs. We want to avoid calling here with unsuited broadways as we can be dominated often and so with 150bb deep I thought 87s would play well post flop. Not really sure how to develop good standard defending ranges as the playing field varies so much. Some fish will 3bet super tight while others very wide and I only see a few players often most just play a little while and I never see them again. I guess default is probably on the tighter side.

    Yeah against that range on turn we have like 55% equity so that is bad fold. Just don't see many players on the site double barrel 3bet pots as the aggressor unless they have a made hand like an overpair or TPTK. If we narrow his range to KQ, AK and 99+ we still have 48%. so either way we should be calling. If we take out AK we only have 30.6% and we only need 25% to continue. But the problem is what do we do on the river without a straight I guess if he shoves we fold, anything under halfpot is call unless the river is a Q, K, or A then we fold no matter what. Do you think that river play sounds reasonable?

    I'm glad I posted I have never really analyzed a hand this deeply kinda difficult with Global Poker and their crappy hand histories. Still not sure how to defend against 3bets, I feel like that is my biggest weakness, maybe folding more preflop would be the best defense against them with that player pool on Global.
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 3,654 -
    edited July 14
    What breakeven%?

    As you suggest, river play depends on bet size and the propensity of this pool to triple barrel bluff.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • dominicaldominical Red Chipper Posts: 9 ✭✭
    Sorry breakeven preflop, you asked what ranges should we be continuing with preflop.
  • BFSkinnerBFSkinner Red Chipper Posts: 118 ✭✭
    You are getting 3-1 on your hand. You have 8 outs to the likely nuts. You will get a crying call from sets and overpairs. I think you can peel here with good implied odds.
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 3,654 -
    edited July 14

    dominical wrote: »
    Sorry breakeven preflop, you asked what ranges should we be continuing with preflop.

    Right, so if your opponent accidentally flashed AA and you were sitting there with 77, what would you do based on this "breakeven %"?

    Incidentally, I still don't know what this 58% is supposed to tell us. What is breaking even here? I'm not being pedantic, I simply suspect you're (mis-)calculating something of dubious utility.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • dominicaldominical Red Chipper Posts: 9 ✭✭
    The breakeven % of his 3bet should tell us how often we have to continue without being exploitable, however if he is only 3 betting AK and QQ+ then it doesn't really matter and we should over fold.
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 3,654 -
    I disagree on both points.

    Maybe someone else could leap in here?
    Moderation In Moderation
  • dominicaldominical Red Chipper Posts: 9 ✭✭
    After thinking about your post some more I think you're saying I should call with hands that have high implied odds, we are deep and and our opponent is strong and likely to pay off if we hit. And the breakeven % doesn't really matter much preflop because equities are close and there is a lot that can change when the cards are dealt. What matters more is how often we will hit those strong hands post flop and if we can flop enough that we can continue and realize all of or equity. Is that where you were going?
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 3,654 -
    That's part of it, yes.

    The concept of "realizing equity" I think is just a bit confusing in many situations. The pair vs pair set up is particularity instructive. If we have 20% equity with the smaller pair, at first sight it looks like we don't really care if we realize some or all of it cos 20% isn't very much. And the only way we technically realize all of it is if we see all five cards. But if 0.8 of the time we don't put another cent in the pot and 0.2 of the time we get our opponent's stack, this looks promising whatever this "equity" thing says.

    In general I'm just skeptical of calculating anything preflop outside of short-stacked situations. I think 87s is a very sensible defend against the 3-bet in this spot.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • BFSkinnerBFSkinner Red Chipper Posts: 118 ✭✭
    TheGameKat wrote: »
    I disagree on both points.

    Maybe someone else could leap in here?

    I'm confused to what he is talking about with 58%. On the turn?
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 3,654 -
    edited July 15
    BFSkinner wrote: »
    TheGameKat wrote: »
    I disagree on both points.

    Maybe someone else could leap in here?

    I'm confused to what he is talking about with 58%. On the turn?

    I think it may be the preflop folding % that makes the BBs 3-bet an auto-profit, but I'm not sure.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • dominicaldominical Red Chipper Posts: 9 ✭✭
    Thanks for the help Kat, I learned a lot including a new word, I will definitely be posting more hands. For a moment there you went all Dale Carnegie on me and politely said " this guys an idiot, I give up." But your last post was very clear and concise, I appreciate it. I am a structural engineer and in my profession numbers can mean the difference between life and death so I struggle with statistics and uncertainty.
  • dominicaldominical Red Chipper Posts: 9 ✭✭
    I misread read your first post where you were asking about ranges for the check raise and I saw preflop range and thats where my brain went. I guess that what happens when you read posts while at work and trying to send emails out at the same time. It has been a little slow at the office due to the coronavirus so I try to pass the time learning poker.

    Here is another hand for laughs too bad they are all not this easy.

    https://play.globalpoker.com/gp/10/hand/5f0f137c72fd360001e3ed4b
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 3,654 -
    dominical wrote: »
    Thanks for the help Kat, I learned a lot including a new word, I will definitely be posting more hands. For a moment there you went all Dale Carnegie on me and politely said " this guys an idiot, I give up." But your last post was very clear and concise, I appreciate it. I am a structural engineer and in my profession numbers can mean the difference between life and death so I struggle with statistics and uncertainty.

    Nah, I just recognize there are people here who are better at poker than me, who often prove to be more help.
    Moderation In Moderation

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