Bread & Butter strategy and implementation

sfx_beigssfx_beigs Red Chipper Posts: 72 ✭✭
Give that the being in a Bread & Butter situation is optimal, it stands to reason that you should do what you can to get into those situations.

As such, does it make sense to vary your raise size from position to position in order to increase your chances of getting into Bread & Butter situations?

For example, in MP with 4+players to act behind you, increase the size of your pre-flop raise to increase the chance of those players behind you folding?

In the CO, you can open for less as there's a lesser chance of the one player behind you calling?

Am I reading too much into this? Is B&B is just an organic thing to be aware of but not control?
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Comments

  • RussRuss Red Chipper Posts: 139 ✭✭
    I used the increased raise size for a long time, just as you described. Then my coach talked me out of it because he said we didn't want players recognizing it and exploiting the larger raise sizes when we would end up OOP when called. I followed his advice for a while, but pretty quickly realized the players in my lower stakes games weren't paying any attention to bet sizing. So I went straight to the exploitative approach of larger sizings with stronger hands, smaller sizings with weaker holdings, with no reaction from 98% of the player pool.

    That said, I do follow the B&B mantra. It is overall good advice, IMO.
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 3,654 -
    Very interesting and important question, since beyond the B&B issue it is essentially probing the connection between range and opening size, where range is a proxy for position.

    Generally speaking, your ranges from up front will be tighter, which means they automatically prefer (or can tolerate) larger sizing. The point being that there's a decent probability of getting called and playing the hand OOP, thus your compensation for the positional disadvantage is range advantage.

    How far you press this point purely in the context of creating B&B situations, I'm not sure. My main takeaway from that discussion is simply to play a lot of hands from LP. In other words, and in the spirit of your question, creating a B&B spot from up front can be heavy sledding, particularly in a live game, but you get your turn in LP and should maybe focus on maximizing that.
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  • sfx_beigssfx_beigs Red Chipper Posts: 72 ✭✭
    In that case, is there some merit to increasing the raise size from LP. In theory, you're targeting weaker players - who by definition are limping or are terrifying of playing 3-bet pots - so does it make sense then to raise larger than a standard (3x + 1x per limper) raise?

    Are we becoming too exploitable in this case? My initial question felt like not as our raise is determined by our position and not our cards although, as you point out, they're kind of the same thing.
  • PapaGiorgioPapaGiorgio Red Chipper Posts: 91 ✭✭
    Larger raise size in LP? I've been dabbling with it but only against players who call with too wide of range. I figure I'm exploiting my opponent because they typically call 5-6BB with the same range they would call 3BB, and that range is WIDE!
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 3,654 -
    edited July 18
    In live games, massive isolation raises are not uncommon, thanks to the tendency of weak players to limp-call. So a default would be 5bb +1bb/limper minimum.
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  • AkashicAkashic Red Chipper Posts: 100 ✭✭
    In the $1/2 games that I am currently playing at, utilizing a strong iso strategy is very important. Easily getting 3+ limpers most hands. I highly recommend using an exploitative approach when deciding on raise sizing. People are just not paying attention and even if they notice, they wont know how to adjust to take advantage of you. Failing all that, you can just swap your sizing around as a trap (I have never needed to do this).

    Currently, I use a 5x-7.5x for hands I want multi-way and 10-12.5x for hands that do not perform well multi-way (also hands that do perform well like A3s).

    People are not adjusting well to these increased sizings in general. People who have great hands typically raise very early and let me know I am beat. When they dont, they just call and fold to double barrels or delayed c-bets.
  • AkashicAkashic Red Chipper Posts: 100 ✭✭
    edited July 18
    I'd also highly recommend checking out the Adam Jones video "Attacking Limpers"

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