AK OOP Facing A 3 Bet

cmanganocmangano Red Chipper Posts: 38 ✭✭
Here is another situation I know I struggle with, playing AK OOP against aggression preflop

NL5, Zone Poker, No Reads. Hero is dealt :Ah:Kc UTG

Hero raises 3x (.15),
HJ calls (.15)
Button raises to ~5x (.77)
Hero should...?

Folding seems out of the question here but calling a 3 bet OOP also seems bad. So 4 bet something like 2.5x with the intention of folding to a shove?

And then what is the plan on the flop assuming we miss? SPR is going to be about 1 so I feel like I am pretty much pot committed. Thoughts?

Comments

  • BFSkinnerBFSkinner Red Chipper Posts: 128 ✭✭
    Stack sizes? Your advice will greatly differ depending on how deep you are.
  • cmanganocmangano Red Chipper Posts: 38 ✭✭
  • BFSkinnerBFSkinner Red Chipper Posts: 128 ✭✭
    Given the breadth of your question, perhaps a little homework is in order.

    Shameless plug for Split's book

    https://www.splitsuit.com/ace-king-poker-book
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 3,669 -
    Doesn't feel right to commit that much of your stack pre and fold to a shove.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • cmanganocmangano Red Chipper Posts: 38 ✭✭
    Thank you. So you're plan is 4 bet and call a shove preflop? What about on the flop if you 4 bet, get called and miss?
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 3,669 -
    cmangano wrote: »
    Thank you. So you're plan is 4 bet and call a shove preflop? What about on the flop if you 4 bet, get called and miss?

    I don't have a plan without knowing something about the population tendencies of this pool. Calling pre seems unpleasant, but against the right pool is an option, I think.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • cmanganocmangano Red Chipper Posts: 38 ✭✭
    Unfortunately these are all unkowns as I play Zone poker on Ignition. I appreciate your response
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 3,669 -
    cmangano wrote: »
    Unfortunately these are all unkowns as I play Zone poker on Ignition. I appreciate your response

    Right, but can you gather data on the population as a whole, or is even that not possible? Even without data, you can presumably make some assumptions about BTN 3-bet ranges and how they'll respond to a 4?
    Moderation In Moderation
  • cmanganocmangano Red Chipper Posts: 38 ✭✭
    I definitely know I need to get better at this and yes I could probably make some generalizations about the population as a whole, although you see some crazy lines sometimes. I think the biggest thing I am learning is that they don't always bet or raise with the nuts. I've seen some crazy showdowns.

    Like yesterday UTG raises 3x, I 3 bet 4x from BB with TT, UTG calls. Flop is 3 5 9, UTG checks, I bet 1/2 pot, UTG check raises (don't remember exact amount). We were well under 3 SPR on the flop so I shove, he calls and shows 54o.
  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 2,359 ✭✭✭✭
    cmangano wrote: »
    Folding seems out of the question
    Why not?
    That's where info about V are important. You don't act the same if BU is sitting on JJ+ or on a 18% squeeze range.
  • cmanganocmangano Red Chipper Posts: 38 ✭✭
    If I knew 100% villain had JJ I would just flat his squeeze but I would never fold. Even if his range is JJ+/AQ+ it's pretty much 50/50 so I am still not folding. I would have to know with 100% certainty that villain has KK/AA here for me to fold.

    Now maybe 4 betting isn't always the right answer, but it's hard for me to find a fold here. Maybe I am completely wrong though.
  • BFSkinnerBFSkinner Red Chipper Posts: 128 ✭✭
    cmangano wrote: »
    I would have to know with 100% certainty that villain has KK/AA here for me to fold.

    But you will never know this. I think you are trying to solve AKo before the flop instead of playing a four betting round game.

  • cmanganocmangano Red Chipper Posts: 38 ✭✭
    I don't understand what you mean by this. Can you clarify please?

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