Are you playing stacks here

blindraiseblindraise Red Chipper Posts: 302 ✭✭
edited July 25 in Live Poker Hands
Live 1/3
Raked (10% $4 cap)
7 handed

EP($230) limp
Button (hero, $800) raise $15 with :Kc:Tc
Small blind (covers) calls
EP call

Flop($45)

:7c:Ts:3c

SB check
EP bet $20
hero?

Notes*
EP is studied and has constructed a strategy which includes thin call downs and value bets against passive, unstudied players and max exploiting with the top of his range against inelastic players who don't consider betting actions on previous streets.

SB is a maniac with 80 vpip. Hes in every pot and is prone to spazzing.

Raising seems good with this hand if SB calls, but he still has to have something to call a button raise against EP donk. But if SB calls we can possibly set up a massive side pot with the robust side of our range against a maniac with hands like JJ+, AQs-AKs, AKo, or even hands like 88, 89s, 89o, T7o, T7s, T3s.
Sets seem unlikely due to the check. He may slow play occasionally but not often on this texture, and if I raise he will surely 3b all sets. I don't think he'll 3b two pair or open enders against me in particular since he's been slightly needling my preflop nittiness all night.

EPs bet is wide and can consist of TPTK, TPGK, open enders, two pair, (N)FD, overcards with BDFD, and sets. He will surely 3b/4b or call a jam, with any nut potential hand at this point.

If we 3b to 65 and SB calls EP can easily jam and generate some fold equity. If we call a 4b jam it will be 195 into 520 for SB. those are pretty good odds for a lot of 2p/overpair combinations, but we'll fold out a lot of offsuit overcards and suited overcards that missed.

If EP jams and both button and SB call that will be a main pot of $650 with $585 eff. for hero on the turn.

Thoughts?

Comments

  • NinjahNinjah Red Chipper Posts: 1,185 ✭✭✭✭
    There aren't enough combos that SB can have here to call with for you to justify raising imo. If he really is a spaz, I would just call here looking to induce a raise from him. You seem to be overly thrilled at the idea of getting it in 3 ways here. I'm not without the :AC:
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 3,669 -
    Right, we're very deep, and if the action gets really crazy, I think even against someone who is liable to go off, we're basically relying on the 2nd nut flush draw.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 2,359 ✭✭✭✭
    blindraise wrote: »
    EPs bet is wide and can consist of TPTK, TPGK, open enders, two pair, (N)FD, overcards with BDFD, and sets. He will surely 3b/4b or call a jam, with any nut potential hand at this point.

    What you forget in your observation is his tendency to donkbet, esp. related to flop texture and donkbet bet sizing? Maybe you've observed previous hands which may give you hints about his range - donkbetting with QsJs isn't the same as with AT no club or 9h8h ; past hands can help to dismiss/discount such combos and point better on which hands V may be.

    Plus, considering your description of his exploitative strategy against bad passive Villain, you should also inform about how you play / are perceived by him and/or your history.
    If you've so much info about him, I guess you're yourself educated too - which he may have noticed and so may play differently against you than against SB.
    So how would that impact his donkbet tendencies and range?
  • blindraiseblindraise Red Chipper Posts: 302 ✭✭
    Ninjah - agree

    Red,
    You're right. I have about 300 hands with EP. Even though it's a small sample I'd say his donks are few and far between esp. multiway, and can only be hands that want to bet for value while still folding hands that may currently beat him. He and I have had some significant hands together, but I've noticed most his smaller bet sizings as semi bluffs and thin value. He is a bit gambly though and may call a raise or overbet/jam if he's drawing to the nuts.

    Raising didn't seem appropriate but was something to consider. We called and SB came along.

    Turn($105): :3S:

    SB: check
    EP: $30
    hero: call
    SB: call

    notes* obviously not drawing to nuts now. EP is basically telling same story from flop which does include some sets. SB may have picked up FDs as well as a boat or two. He may be trying to make it to showdown with a weaker holding like 7x but right now it looks like he's hanging around with draw/bd potential hands.

    River($195): :8C:

    SB: check
    EP($165): $80
    Hero?
  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 2,359 ✭✭✭✭
    blindraise wrote: »

    notes* obviously not drawing to nuts now. EP is basically telling same story from flop which does include some sets. SB may have picked up FDs as well as a boat or two. He may be trying to make it to showdown with a weaker holding like 7x but right now it looks like he's hanging around with draw/bd potential hands.

    I think that you focus too much on the monster under the bed and not enough on his range as a whole - and how this would react after you (and SB) called and not raise a draw heavy flop. (Like, would you have called with AhAd? What about AcAd? AcKc? 77?)
  • NitinNitin Red Chipper Posts: 5 ✭✭
    I think EP has :Ac with some Xc other than that nothing makes sense, there is a high possibility that he has limped with those hole cards and called your raise.

    SB: I doubt if he has boat may be 2 pairs .

    Anyhow what was the outcome of the game
  • yuval_er1yuval_er1 Red Chipper Posts: 3 ✭✭
    I think in the flop you can reraise everything you had an intention to cbet, Your hand definitely in this category,
    Although we don't want to play for stacks with the SB, we do want to face one opponent with our top pair, and EP sounds like a weak player that can call with weaker top pair or with weaker draws, and even if everyone folds that is an okay outcome. reraise to 50-60 does not commit us to play for stacks with SB and yet put him in a difficult spot.
  • blindraiseblindraise Red Chipper Posts: 302 ✭✭
    @Red,
    Are you raising river then?

    @Nitin,
    I think you're right, but he does have rare 2pair turned boat combos, but I'm pretty sure a maniac wouldn't be able to call flop with two pair even if it is bottom 2.

    @yuval_er1,
    What you're saying is contradictive. Youre saying a raise is appropriate, but playing for stacks isn't. Due to EPs eff. stack if we raise and EP calls we are essentially committing to stacks from that point on, and the only way to negate that is if everyone folds, which wouldn't be maxEV with our current holding. EP is also not a weak player, he plays thin against the right opps. and targets subsets of ranges when said range is clearly defined as the subset.
  • RedRed Red Chipper Posts: 2,359 ✭✭✭✭
    blindraise wrote: »
    @Red,
    Are you raising river then?
    Yes.
    But I'd never be in this situation. I don't play so passively as you. I'd have raise flop, and if not (just calling trying to make SB raise), I'd have raised (shove) turn.
  • blindraiseblindraise Red Chipper Posts: 302 ✭✭
    I think playing this hand in an aggressive way would've been better for the game, for image, and for EV.

    But is playing aggressively ever maxEV when there is a maniac in the hand with two players oriented towards value?

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Emoji
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file