NL 20 KK preflop allin?

Zsolti07Zsolti07 Red Chipper Posts: 115 ✭✭
Villain (3,7k hands): 23/19/7,3

It was on the table a snap call from me but after the session I wondered if he would do it worst than KK+... My MP RFI is 17% and my 4bet is 3%. Villain's 3bet on the button is 8,8 and his 4bet range is 2% and his 5bet range 2%. After his allin the potodds was 30% and I had vs KK+ range 26% equity.
Thank you.
Zsolti07


Hand Information
Holdem NL 0.10/0.20, 0.2 BB (5 handed).
Hand History converter courtesy of pokerhandreplays.com

Table Information
Seat: 1 D1M1TR0V ($22.47) Dealer
Seat: 3 flzrbst ($23.22) Small Blind
Seat: 5 Stambata79 ($10.86) Big Blind
Seat: 6 Hero ($20.12)
Seat: 8 nik4energy ($20.56)
Dealt to Hero
KS.png KH.png 

Preflop (Pot:0.3)
Hero    RAISE $0.6
nik4energy    FOLD
D1M1TR0V    RAISE $1.8
flzrbst    FOLD
Stambata79    CALL $1.6
Hero    RAISE $8.4
D1M1TR0V    RAISE $22.47
Stambata79    FOLD
Hero    ALL-IN $11.72

Comments

  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 3,833 -
    edited September 11
    Think we've discussed this recently. The decision is simply whether, at this particular table (or opponent since you have stats), getting AIPF at 100bb with KK is profitable. In an online game, I think the default is to get it in.

    In this particular spot with the massive overlay you're getting. folding to the jam would be terrible IMO.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • Zsolti07Zsolti07 Red Chipper Posts: 115 ✭✭
  • PapaGiorgioPapaGiorgio Red Chipper Posts: 96 ✭✭
    If you only put him on AA/KK, then I think this is a fold. You might be getting the pot odds, but it's 6 Aces combos vs 1 Kings combos, and versus Kings you are most likely splitting the pot. Does the 26% equity include the percentage of times you tie or is that outright winning percentage? If he could also have AKs in his range, then this is a call.

    Have you seen his hands anytime he has 4B or 5B? These hands would tell you if he can make the shove with AK or weaker hands.
  • BadprimeribBadprimerib Red Chipper Posts: 4 ✭✭
    I feel like we tend to forget the times we call with KK in spots like this and see something other than KK+ and ship the pot, but we remember EVERY time they show up with AA. I haven’t done the math but I have a feeling calling and folding here are pretty close to neutral EV so it likely doesn’t matter much in the long run.
  • Zsolti07Zsolti07 Red Chipper Posts: 115 ✭✭
    Does the 26% equity include the percentage of times you tie or is that outright winning percentage?

    The 26% equity include the tie too.
  • Zsolti07Zsolti07 Red Chipper Posts: 115 ✭✭
    I feel like we tend to forget the times we call with KK in spots like this and see something other than KK+ and ship the pot, but we remember EVERY time they show up with AA. I haven’t done the math but I have a feeling calling and folding here are pretty close to neutral EV so it likely doesn’t matter much in the long run.

    Maybe you're right... It's hard to ignore the variance.
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 3,833 -
    Zsolti07 wrote: »
    I feel like we tend to forget the times we call with KK in spots like this and see something other than KK+ and ship the pot, but we remember EVERY time they show up with AA. I haven’t done the math but I have a feeling calling and folding here are pretty close to neutral EV so it likely doesn’t matter much in the long run.

    Maybe you're right... It's hard to ignore the variance.

    If V's 5b range is really 2%, it isn't KK+.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • Zsolti07Zsolti07 Red Chipper Posts: 115 ✭✭
    edited September 12
    TheGameKat wrote: »
    If V's 5b range is really 2%, it isn't KK+.

    But how much does it raise his 5bet stats when he go allin looser blind versus blind or against loose fish with 30bb?
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 3,833 -
    Zsolti07 wrote: »
    TheGameKat wrote: »
    If V's 5b range is really 2%, it isn't KK+.

    But how much does it raise his 5bet stats when he go allin looser blind versus blind or against loose fish with 30bb?

    I didn't say I necessarily trusted the stat, just pointing it out.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • kenaceskenaces Red Chipper Posts: 1,520 ✭✭✭✭
    I feel like we tend to forget the times we call with KK in spots like this and see something other than KK+ and ship the pot, but we remember EVERY time they show up with AA. I haven’t done the math but I have a feeling calling and folding here are pretty close to neutral EV so it likely doesn’t matter much in the long run.

    4B/FOLD KK is definitely a mistake
  • BFSkinnerBFSkinner Red Chipper Posts: 152 ✭✭
    You are 100bb deep. Unless your opponent is a super nit, you can’t 4-bet/fold. If you are 300+deep this may be a different.

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