Defending BB with pocket Q

CriminalBizzyCriminalBizzy Las VegasRed Chipper Posts: 16 ✭✭
This is an interesting hand that I played recently and would like to get some input from RCP about this hand.

Table Stakes are $0.02/$0.04
Villain Stack - $23.88
Hero Stack - $9.00 (effective)
Playing 6 handed

What I know about villain is that they are typically a pretty solid player. They frequently show up with broadway type hands and are willing to call/bet strong draws.

Action:

Villain is UTG and opens with 3xBB raise. Pretty standard in terms of open raise size. I make a mental note that they are probably strong since I don't see this player open often from early position where they are going to be out of position. Action folds around to me and I decide to 3-bet to 8.5 BB with :QH::QC: . Villain just calls and I start to think its probably not likely that they have pocket A or pocket K unless they are trying to slowplay, so I decide not to eliminate those hands from their range just yet.

The range I decide to put villain in looks something like AA-99,AKo-AJo,KQo-KJo,QJo,AKs-ATs,KQs-KJs,QJs. Pot is $0.70.

The flop comes :AS::4C::AH:

Not the best flop for me but immediately I start to think the probability of villain have an ace is low and there are not any obvious straight or flush draws on the board. I decide to keep control of the pot, I bet 1/2 pot. I think I am going to be ahead most of the time with the range that I think I am facing. Worse hands that might call are JJ, KJo/s, KQo/s or QJo/s. Villain calls and this makes me wonder if they do have a pocket pair. Pot is $1.40.

Turn is :9H:

I don't think this card should really change much considering the range that I put villain on. This time I decide to check and see what happens, hoping to slow down the action a little. I don't think I can comfortably eliminate very many holdings from villains range yet. Villain bets 2/3 pot and I tank. I tank pretty hard debating on if villain has an ace. My initial instinct is to fold and let my hand go. Eventually I decide to make the call instead of folding. Pot is $3.26.

River is :9S:

Now I am hoping for a check back. I don't think there are a lot of hands that can continue here. I check and villain bets pot. I take a few seconds to think about this and fold my hand.

Some interesting statistics that I came across as I analyzed the hand myself:

Equilab has my equity against the range that I set at 59%, 56%, and then 59.33%.

Flopzilla shows that only 29% of hands should be continue, then 35% of hands on the turn.

Comments

  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 3,833 -
    Why bet 1/2-pot on flop? How do you suppose changing that sizing impacts your opponent's calling range and your equity against it?
    Moderation In Moderation
  • CriminalBizzyCriminalBizzy Las VegasRed Chipper Posts: 16 ✭✭
    TheGameKat wrote: »
    Why bet 1/2-pot on flop? How do you suppose changing that sizing impacts your opponent's calling range and your equity against it?

    I decided on my sizing because of a recent Core 2.0 lesson I went through. So I am trying out the "conventional bet sizings" that were suggested. I also think that I can be ahead enough of the time that if villain doesn't hit that flop hard that I will most likely take it down right then and there.

    After the hand I don't think changing my bet sizing is going to affect very much in this spot.
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 3,833 -
    Okay, important point to remember about s "conventional" anything is that the caveat is invariably "unless something else tells you different". Board texture is one of those important things the universe tells you.

    I believe the latest word from solver land is that Axx flops are happy with largeish bets, whereas AAx are not. With again another bunch of caveats.

    But without getting into all that, I think it's a good idea to always ask:

    1. What does a bet achieve?
    2. How does my sizing impact V's continuance range?

    You can do that without being enslaved by silicon.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 3,833 -
    A point about that flop. You note that when V doesn't hit it hard, you take it down right there. Possibly true, although they should be defending with some pretty weird stuff. The thing is, hitting that flop hard means exclusively Ax and 44. So sure if you bet 1/2-pot you'll likely get stuff like KJs to fold, but do you really want that to happen?
    Moderation In Moderation
  • cxy123cxy123 Red Chipper Posts: 77 ✭✭
    You're pretty deep with V. I might 4x preflop oop.

    Flop I would go smaller. I think you're wa/wb here.

    If V is relatively tight upfront as you suggest are you sure KJ and QJo call preflop? What did V open with and then fold? 55-88? Did V open A9/A8 etc? QT? KT? JT? I think ATs would call 3b over KJo. I think some of those PP hands call 3b preflop moreso than Kx offsuit imo.

    I personally wouldn't eliminate AA, KK and AK from V range, agreed there. I think I can get behind c/c for 2 streets for reasonable size bc I find it difficult to get a lot of value based on that range. I think it's ambitious to think Kq,kj, Qj calls your cbet. I personally think I like the bet bc Imo V will have more lower PP than the range you assigned and less KQo Kj and QJo which I don't think continue as much to your preflop 3 bet. I assume 8-9 handed UTG open?

  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 3,833 -
    I believe it's 6-handed.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • CriminalBizzyCriminalBizzy Las VegasRed Chipper Posts: 16 ✭✭
    TheGameKat wrote: »
    A point about that flop. You note that when V doesn't hit it hard, you take it down right there. Possibly true, although they should be defending with some pretty weird stuff. The thing is, hitting that flop hard means exclusively Ax and 44. So sure if you bet 1/2-pot you'll likely get stuff like KJs to fold, but do you really want that to happen?

    I honestly would love worse hands to call and continue. When I say that it is more likely that I will get worse hands to fold its more from a practical/logical perspective than from what I would like to happen.

    I would like some clarification on your comments... are you making them to trigger me to be more thoughtful about the scenario or are you attempting to guide me to a certain conclusion?
  • CriminalBizzyCriminalBizzy Las VegasRed Chipper Posts: 16 ✭✭
    cxy123 wrote: »
    You're pretty deep with V. I might 4x preflop oop.

    Flop I would go smaller. I think you're wa/wb here.

    If V is relatively tight upfront as you suggest are you sure KJ and QJo call preflop? What did V open with and then fold? 55-88? Did V open A9/A8 etc? QT? KT? JT? I think ATs would call 3b over KJo. I think some of those PP hands call 3b preflop moreso than Kx offsuit imo.

    I personally wouldn't eliminate AA, KK and AK from V range, agreed there. I think I can get behind c/c for 2 streets for reasonable size bc I find it difficult to get a lot of value based on that range. I think it's ambitious to think Kq,kj, Qj calls your cbet. I personally think I like the bet bc Imo V will have more lower PP than the range you assigned and less KQo Kj and QJo which I don't think continue as much to your preflop 3 bet. I assume 8-9 handed UTG open?

    Even though we know KJ/QJo is not the best hand to be playing from UTG, I find it hard to exclude them from ranges with 100% certainty. In some cash games that I play with I have seen crazier things so I tend to include non-suited Broadway connectors just to be on the safe side and eliminate them as soon as I can.

    I think you bring up a good point about pocket pairs... maybe that is something I need to take into consideration for my range identification on players.

    We were 6 handed when this particular hand took place but we were at a table that could seat up to 9 players.
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 3,833 -
    Oh mostly I am thinking aloud, I'm not in the business of triggering people.

    But, yes agreed a 1/2-pot bet will indeed create a lot of folds of hands you have crushed, so what I'm getting at is a smaller bet may get calls from hands you have crushed.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • CriminalBizzyCriminalBizzy Las VegasRed Chipper Posts: 16 ✭✭
    Yup, I am starting to come to that conclusion myself. I find myself making a lot of 2/3 pot or 1/2 pot c-bets in the games I am playing. I think that is something I need to monitor and start to experiment with smaller c-bet when I think I have a good lead to get worse hands to come along.

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