EARLY ACCESS: PRO GTO Ranges

TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 4,257 -
edited November 2020 in PRO Products
Hello PRO subscribers:

More new stuff to announce!

As you may have noticed, over the last few months we've turned our attention increasingly towards GTO elements and solutions of NLHE. This is reflected in our GTO Crash Course released earlier this year, as well as some of our group coaching sessions, such as kenaces popular overview of GTO simplification.

This is a direction we will continue to pursue in 2021, and as a prelude to that material, we are providing early access to GTO Ranges. Our research team has been buried in Monker solutions for several months now, and this is the first release of the fruits of those labors.

As with the new CORE material, we're still tweaking the presentation, but figured you'd like to see the ranges themselves and get a taste of what's coming in the next few weeks and months. This first drop is for 6-max and assumes typical online parameters. The extension to 8-handed play is by nature more complex, but we're currently working on that with a first quarter 2021 release date scheduled.

As ever, feedback is welcome.

Thanks ~ Kat
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Comments

  • LeChiffreLeChiffre NetherlandsRed Chipper Posts: 657 ✭✭✭
    edited November 2020
    Is BB the only position where we call open raises? All other positions just have a 3bet-or-fold chart.

    Edit: never mind. But could you elaborate on why we never call except in the BB?
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 4,257 -
    edited November 2020
    LeChiffre wrote: »
    Is BB the only position where we call open raises? All other positions just have a 3bet-or-fold chart.

    Edit: never mind. But could you elaborate on why we never call except in the BB?

    Essentially it's a simplification that gives up minimal EV, but frees up a lot of mental energy for postflop planning. So one can certainly sprinkle in some calling as an exploitative deviation, but our silicon overlords really don't seem to like it much. Or, perhaps more accurately, they don't yell at us if we choose to simplify through a 3-bet-or-fold simplification.
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  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 4,257 -
    Incidentally, calls are included in the new CORE ranges. I'm endeavoring to discover the difference in philosophy.

    https://redchippoker.com/courses/core-ranges/
    Moderation In Moderation
  • ROI RUINERROI RUINER Red Chipper Posts: 221 ✭✭
    Wouldn’t flats in the BU due to absolute position be higher EV than 100% 3bets even with rake? We get more opportunities to benefit from position in the long term.
  • AceAceFoldAceAceFold Red Chipper Posts: 1
    why did you use monker instead simple preflop holdem? seems second one is much more precise for preflop, since it used more smart bucketing
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 4,257 -
    edited November 2020
    ROI RUINER wrote: »
    Wouldn’t flats in the BU due to absolute position be higher EV than 100% 3bets even with rake? We get more opportunities to benefit from position in the long term.

    If we assume that the opponents are somewhat competent and thus have reasonable ranges, the answer from the machines is apparently "no". That is, the gain in EV is tiny. We're all pretty surprised by this, tbh.

    To address why some of the new CORE ranges do include flats, it's designed to exploit the fact that in live play in particular we're dealing with weaker players. Additionally, in full ring one has to consider the tighter ranges from EP which makes flatting with hands like JJ/QQ in LP an option that needs to be included.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 4,257 -
    AceAceFold wrote: »
    why did you use monker instead simple preflop holdem? seems second one is much more precise for preflop, since it used more smart bucketing

    Apparently this decision was driven by our desire to include multiway solutions.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • ROI RUINERROI RUINER Red Chipper Posts: 221 ✭✭
    edited November 2020
    TheGameKat wrote: »
    ROI RUINER wrote: »
    Wouldn’t flats in the BU due to absolute position be higher EV than 100% 3bets even with rake? We get more opportunities to benefit from position in the long term.

    If we assume that the opponents are somewhat competent and thus have reasonable ranges, the answer from the machines is apparently "no". That is, the gain in EV is tiny. We're all pretty surprised by this, tbh.

    To address why some of the new CORE ranges do include flats, it's designed to exploit the fact that in live play in particular we're dealing with weaker players. Additionally, in full ring one has to consider the tighter ranges from EP which makes flatting with hands like JJ/QQ in LP an option that needs to be included.

    I can see the pros and cons. So this is theory based.

    From an exploitative standpoint if (6max) MP is an avg reg and BB is a massive fish and I am on the button with 98s I don't want to 3bet and get the fish out of the hand.

    If I am not fortunate enough to find a good table with a fish or two and am up against competent regs (but not world beaters) then I am bringing the pain to the table controlling the game dynamic AND uncapping my entire preflop range with a 3bet/fold game.

    Going to check it out with an open mind. I can see it in theory.

    Someone is playing this strategy vs me then my 4bet range gets a little crazy. That is generally my default vs aggressive LP 3bettors.
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 4,257 -
    I can definitely see exploitative deviations against specific opponent types.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • Michael86Michael86 Red Chipper Posts: 1 ✭✭
    Do you think these ranges are good for zoom/fast forward pools? Any chance we could see a video with these ranges being used and explained?
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 4,257 -
    Yeah we'll have lots of additional content in the coming months both using these ranges and fleshing them out into a complete, multi-street strategy.

    I'd say they'd be ideal for Zoom. When you have minimal info about your opponents, GTO is the default anyway.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • ROI RUINERROI RUINER Red Chipper Posts: 221 ✭✭
    I played a 100nl session using this strategy and these ranges. It was 5 regs (counting me) and a 78% VPIP whale with a short stack. I didn’t pay the whale much regard due to stack size and I had position on him.

    It was pretty clear I was giving the nitty regs fits.

    I like the strategy. I’ve tried 3bet or fold before but my ranges weren’t correct for it. These GTO ranges are great for it.

    Hoping you guys do the same with MTT stack sizes as well.
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 4,257 -
    ROI RUINER wrote: »
    I played a 100nl session using this strategy and these ranges. It was 5 regs (counting me) and a 78% VPIP whale with a short stack. I didn’t pay the whale much regard due to stack size and I had position on him.

    It was pretty clear I was giving the nitty regs fits.

    I like the strategy. I’ve tried 3bet or fold before but my ranges weren’t correct for it. These GTO ranges are great for it.

    Hoping you guys do the same with MTT stack sizes as well.

    Interesting challenge. We have the tools. The issue is always deciding what depth and the ante structure, and making some decision about the level of ICM tax.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • PtpokerPtpoker Red Chipper Posts: 2 ✭✭
    In the charts under "WE OPEN RAISE UTG" facing a BTN 3-bet the chart says "3Bet". I just wanted to clarify it is supposed to say 4-Bet in the actual chart? And to check if the chart is correct. I am truly feeling I am becoming a better player. Still break even at 10NL, but really starting to get the hang of 2-5NL. Most importanly, I am learning and enjoying my long lost hobby. I wish all of you at RCP the best of christmas, and am looking forward to lots of great content in 2021! :) Thank you!
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 4,257 -
    Ptpoker wrote: »
    In the charts under "WE OPEN RAISE UTG" facing a BTN 3-bet the chart says "3Bet". I just wanted to clarify it is supposed to say 4-Bet in the actual chart? And to check if the chart is correct. I am truly feeling I am becoming a better player. Still break even at 10NL, but really starting to get the hang of 2-5NL. Most importanly, I am learning and enjoying my long lost hobby. I wish all of you at RCP the best of christmas, and am looking forward to lots of great content in 2021! :) Thank you!

    That's correct, good eye.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • mbecks83mbecks83 Red Chipper Posts: 79 ✭✭
    Hey, these ranges and the whole 3bet/fold idea are really interesting.

    One thing that is really nagging me though - in the early positions (UTG, HJ, CO) what happened to suited-connectors...and how do we justify replacing them with hands like suited kings, queens, and jacks (down to J7s).

    For example: the CO chart is telling us to fold 98s but open Q5s!

    I guess this is something to do with preferring high card value over implied-odds? This is something that's usually recommended for low SPR situations. Yet here we have really high SPRs coming from 2.5x opens (one caller = pot of 6.5bb maximum = SPR of 15!)

    I guess the other reason could be blocker value?

    Would love to hear some feedback on this point. Overall awesome work though.
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 4,257 -
    Fascinating, isn't it. As we started to compile these results, most of us were quite surprised by some of the details of the more marginal hands. Unfortunately The Machines don't provide a written report explaining why these decisions are reached, but I suspect you're on the right track. My takeaway is that Monker cares far less about board coverage than humans have been trained to over the last few years.
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