Hand Review (first post)

tokens5tokens5 Red Chipper Posts: 9 ✭✭
edited January 9 in Live Poker Hands
This is my first attempt at posting a hand and getting feedback. I read a little bit about what and how to post along with a lot of people's opinions about it on here. I'm going to break personal rules that people have, I'm sure. If I do, just let me know briefly and I'll adjust as time progresses. Also- any feedback, thoughts, etc. is welcome. This is the hand I'm sharing because it's the only one I've remembered and noted thoroughly enough while playing, still working on balancing all the variables of play.

1/3 Live - Noon on Saturday
5 handed game - me + 3 seemingly regulars + 1 guy on his phone

200 effective stack size (my stack, others involved had 400ish). It was early on in the game. In fact, I only played for an hour.

I'm in the SB, HJ straddled $6.

I'm dealt :Js:Jd .

CO calls, BTN calls. I raise to $15. BB and HJ calls, other 2 fold.

Flop :Td:8c:4h .

I bet $25. BB folds. HJ calls. I was confident this sequence would happen when betting.

HJ is a loose player, talks a lot. Shows at least one of his cards over half of the time, seems to just be there for fun. Always straddles, tips the dealer a buck frequently, almost randomly. Just seems to be tossing money around. I'm inexperienced with this, but I put this guy on a range of pretty much 80%+ of hands. He seriously plays anything and everything, it seems. Earlier he played "his favorite hand" as he called when it was dealt, which he bet it small all the way to showdown- ended up being a 9-high (he lost).

Turn :AS:

I bet $50, HJ folds.

Now, I don't know if posting hands that don't go to showdown is ok, but here is one. First of all, the straddle essentially just makes it a $6 BB and changes relative positioning, yeah? No other way to really read into that, right?

In reflecting on this hand, I think the $25 bet was ok, it was roughly 1/2 pot and got rid of one player. But should I want to keep him in with JJ? It's an over pair on the flop but easily beaten later on. My mentality was to get it to heads up with the HJ. When it was, and an A came on the turn, I figured the only thing he would call $50 with was an Ace, and if I checked he would have also checked. Should I have bet smaller for value here? With his huge range, I win this hand most of the time, so I think I should have aimed to get it to showdown. I could have kept him along with maybe a $15 or $20. As I type this out I think that is becoming obvious (I guess that's partially the point...)

Any thoughts?

Comments

  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 4,257 -
    Main thought is your preflop raise is way too small. I'd make it at least $35.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • tokens5tokens5 Red Chipper Posts: 9 ✭✭
    Does the 'norm' of the game matter for that? If I bet $35 it's highly likely everyone folds without question. $15 was the highest raise pre-flop thus far in this game. Prior to this my pre-flop raises were $10. The guy just tossing around money was never playing huge amounts, but just seeming to want to be a part of the play.
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 4,257 -
    tokens5 wrote: »
    Does the 'norm' of the game matter for that? If I bet $35 it's highly likely everyone folds without question. $15 was the highest raise pre-flop thus far in this game. Prior to this my pre-flop raises were $10. The guy just tossing around money was never playing huge amounts, but just seeming to want to be a part of the play.

    There's a straddle which on it's own should double your raise size, plus you need to add something for the limpers and being OOP.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • tokens5tokens5 Red Chipper Posts: 9 ✭✭
    Makes sense. If that would elicit folds all around, with certainty, would you consider lowering it from $35 at all?
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 4,257 -
    tokens5 wrote: »
    Makes sense. If that would elicit folds all around, with certainty, would you consider lowering it from $35 at all?

    Absolutely not.

    If we regard the straddle as a blind raise, you making it $35 and everyone folding means you win 8bb. How much do you think JJ OOP is worth?
    Moderation In Moderation
  • tokens5tokens5 Red Chipper Posts: 9 ✭✭
    TheGameKat wrote: »
    tokens5 wrote: »
    Makes sense. If that would elicit folds all around, with certainty, would you consider lowering it from $35 at all?

    Absolutely not.

    If we regard the straddle as a blind raise, you making it $35 and everyone folding means you win 8bb. How much do you think JJ OOP is worth?

    I've never thought about a specific worth of a hand in certain positions... I assume 8BB is a good deal for JJ OOP? That makes sense, I think I'm veiled by what the flop turned out to be. If it had some broadway cards in there this whole thing takes on a different look. So then with the $35 raise you are hoping to take the pot then and there, you don't want any calls, right?

    Also, in general, if I regularly raise pre-flop significantly more than the others at the table what pros/cons do you foresee?
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 4,257 -
    You're happy to take the pot down pre or at least get it heads up.

    As to raising more than the group-think. Fundamentally you'll probably win more, since it's just sounder given the norms you've described. As to sociological implications, unlike some poker variants, NLHE is a game in which it is better to be feared than loved.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 4,257 -
    I guess the only downside is you may get subjected to the famous "buddy" speech. It has countless variations but roughly it goes:

    "Raising again, eh, buddy. Big fat raise, huh? Try raising my blind one more time, buddy, see where that gets you."

    And so on.

    Based on the action in the hand you posted above, nobody will be able to defend themselves however much they chirp. Again, you profit.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • tokens5tokens5 Red Chipper Posts: 9 ✭✭
    TheGameKat wrote: »
    You're happy to take the pot down pre or at least get it heads up.

    As to raising more than the group-think. Fundamentally you'll probably win more, since it's just sounder given the norms you've described. As to sociological implications, unlike some poker variants, NLHE is a game in which it is better to be feared than loved.

    Good take. Thanks for the feedback and fielding questions!
  • tokens5tokens5 Red Chipper Posts: 9 ✭✭
    TheGameKat wrote: »
    I guess the only downside is you may get subjected to the famous "buddy" speech. It has countless variations but roughly it goes:

    "Raising again, eh, buddy. Big fat raise, huh? Try raising my blind one more time, buddy, see where that gets you."

    And so on.

    Based on the action in the hand you posted above, nobody will be able to defend themselves however much they chirp. Again, you profit.

    Haha good to have that insight. I don't think that speech was going to come from any of these guys specifically, but can definitely imagine some where it would. The more time I spend in Core, playing, and this convo it seems I need to raise a lot more across the board. Which is close to the very first lesson in Core and still I haven't elevated to proper levels of betting just yet. Thanks again!
  • HotsteppaHotsteppa Red Chipper Posts: 20 ✭✭
    I love the buddy speech lol. It makes you realise your playing the right way. when i get the speech, I fully target the guy who says it. Putting people on tilt wins no friends, just more cash!!!!
  • ShamanShaman Red Chipper Posts: 18 ✭✭
    +1 to Kats comments.

    The straddle makes you even more short stacked that you already are (33 bb deep instead of 66 bb deep). This makes it easy for you to get AI on any flop and certainly by the turn. So with the premium hand and a loose player whats the goal here with JJ?
  • tokens5tokens5 Red Chipper Posts: 9 ✭✭
    Shaman wrote: »
    +1 to Kats comments.

    The straddle makes you even more short stacked that you already are (33 bb deep instead of 66 bb deep). This makes it easy for you to get AI on any flop and certainly by the turn. So with the premium hand and a loose player whats the goal here with JJ?

    I see your point. Looking at a loose player while holding JJ... bet more and bet often... Yeah? Either grab the chips then or get as many pushed in as possible. You're in my shoes, how would you articulate your goal in this situation?
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Posts: 4,257 -
    tokens5 wrote: »
    Shaman wrote: »
    +1 to Kats comments.

    The straddle makes you even more short stacked that you already are (33 bb deep instead of 66 bb deep). This makes it easy for you to get AI on any flop and certainly by the turn. So with the premium hand and a loose player whats the goal here with JJ?

    I see your point. Looking at a loose player while holding JJ... bet more and bet often... Yeah? Either grab the chips then or get as many pushed in as possible. You're in my shoes, how would you articulate your goal in this situation?

    Punish poor, passive players through aggression.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • tokens5tokens5 Red Chipper Posts: 9 ✭✭
    TheGameKat wrote: »
    tokens5 wrote: »
    Shaman wrote: »
    +1 to Kats comments.

    The straddle makes you even more short stacked that you already are (33 bb deep instead of 66 bb deep). This makes it easy for you to get AI on any flop and certainly by the turn. So with the premium hand and a loose player whats the goal here with JJ?

    I see your point. Looking at a loose player while holding JJ... bet more and bet often... Yeah? Either grab the chips then or get as many pushed in as possible. You're in my shoes, how would you articulate your goal in this situation?

    Punish poor, passive players through aggression.

    Well said and noted!

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