2-3 NL Hand Live

STstewartSTstewart Red Chipper Posts: 6 ✭✭
I played this hand Sat night at Ameristar in St. Louis

The game is a 9 handed 2-3 NL game but it has frequent straddles from $6-15. At the time of this hand, everyone was button straddling. The game is very deep. I sat down with $300 and was the short stack. I would guess about half the stacks were in the 600-1000 range with a couple under and a couple up to about 2k at that time. I was in this game mostly because I wanted to try my hand at a tougher game than the 1-2 that was being spread in the same room.

I am on the button with a $6 straddle. I had at the table about an hour, and had a tight to nit image. My thinking was that you almost can't play a hand that can't face a reraise preflop unless you are the CO or button. Most hands are getting raised to $20-30 preflop. I have about $290 at the time of this hand

Both blinds fold, UTG calls 6. UTG was not a great player, was looser most players, (I had seen several junk suited hands shown down in the last hour). UTG has about $900. Folds to HJ, HJ makes it 20. HJ has about $1100 at this time. HJ appears to be a good player, almost certainly a better player than me. I think HJ could be making this play with a lot of cards as an iso play on UTG. CO folds, I have KdKs. I make it 60, please comment on my sizing. My plan was to get HU with UTG and shove any non ace flop. UTG and CO both call. $175ish in the pot. I wasn't sure what UTG had, but I was thinking AT-AQs, PP up to QQ, and maybe a suited connector or two.

Flop comes QhTc3h UTG checks, HJ bets 120. What do I put him on? Is it reasonable to think there are some hands in his range that are bluffs against my range but value against UTG? I thought for a second, then shoved. My overriding thought was that I had an overpair in a 1.3 SPR pot. I think this is standard but then things got weird and made me question myself. UTG Calls, then HJ shoves. UTG tanks for 3-4 minutes (that sucked bad having to wait when I have to think I am behind at that point) and then folds. I will post results after I get comments.

I think this is all standard. Part of my problem is that I have adequate funds to play live, but I don't have a set bankroll like I do for online. It is going to take a bit of time to get used to thinking in terms of bb's rather than raw dollars live.

Comments

  • KossKoss Red Chipper Posts: 128 ✭✭✭
    These types of 2/3 games have a way of approaching mid-stakes levels pretty quickly as average stack depth gets over $1k and straddles are frequent. These games start to break the fundamental idea of poker being a battle for the antes because raise sizes are massive compared to the blinds and everyone calls with any hand they want to play. When opening raise sizes are $20-$30 you're really in more of a $2/$5 to $5/$10 game territory. So even though you've bought in for a 100BB stack, you can't play it the same way you would 100BB online. The same plays and options just aren't going to be available to you. The straddle alone makes it a 50BB stack, and then when you start factoring in 4 or 5x raises instead of the online 2.5 to 3x, your stack plays more like a 30BB stack. If you are going to play these types of games with that stack, you have to go in with the mindset that you're shortstacking.

    The good news is, judging by your play in the hand, you did just that. The advantage of having a short stack in these games is that when you do pick up a hand like KK and make a big raise, your opponents do not have the proper implied odds to try and chase you down with small pairs or suited connectors. They still will, and while they will win some time, they are making a fundamental error by calling your preflop 3-bet in this spot. Unless UTG was slowplaying AA, there is no hand he can call your $60 raise with that he can show a long term profit against your KK, you just don't have enough $ behind.

    Preflop looks fine. Even though the open raises tend to be big, when 3-betting I still stick with 3x in position and 4x OOP, because low stakes players tend to think in terms of raw $ and less in BB, so while a $20-$30 open may be "standard" a $60-$90 3-bet will seem big.

    UTG limping then cold calling the 3-bet is odd. I think your range for him is probably pretty good. You can maybe throw out the small PP's, but I would not be surprised to see 77-QQ and AJ+ here. Usually when I see a limper showdown a hand they cold-called a 3-bet with it was with a hand that they probably should have opened with, instead of some of the garbage hands they would limp/fold. I also agree the HJ likely has a larger range.

    OTF when HJ bets out, that's a bit perplexing. But the pot size is now $180 and you have $230 back with an overpair. There's nothing to do but shove here.

    What's insane is that HJ decided to bet this flop, and when it gets back to him the pot is $860 and it's only $110 back to him. You could show him your Kings and he should call with most pairs.

    In summary, you played it fine, and the results are irrelevant. Short stacking can be profitable, but it's very swingy. You will lose a lot of $300 pots like this when guys make bad calls against you but there's nothing you can do, but the times you double or triple up will make up for. If you like playing deeper and into later streets, buy in bigger or stick to 1/2.
  • CriminalBizzyCriminalBizzy Las VegasRed Chipper Posts: 100 ✭✭
    The first thing to keep in mind is that you are no longer playing a $2/$3 game if everyone is straddling on the button. You are playing a $3/$6 game and when the HJ opens for $20, that is a 3.3x raise. Personally I would have made it $25 because of the limper but villains raise feels pretty standard based on your description. Your 3-bet is a good size and I don't think you have much to be worried about.

    When both players call, their ranges are capped. We can start to discount a lot of premium pocket pairs. UTG probably has a lot of Ax hands in their range based on your description and Villain is a bit tighter. My initial thought is that they have a lot of Qx or Tx type of hands in their range, specifically AQs or ATs. QT is a possibility but if this person is at the skill level that you think they are then you really have to question if they would play a hand like that from the HJ. Most likely they have hit a pair or possibly middle or bottom set.

    I think you have to shove when villain donks into you on the flop. The spr is so low that you are not going to have much left to play with on the turn. If villain has a set, you still have two outs to hit.
  • Lad23derLad23der Red Chipper Posts: 3 ✭✭
    edited May 24
    I don't think villian would lead with trips here. I think he would want to check raise those hands. I think he has some type of combo draw here. ATh, AJh, Ax hearts. Any of those hands have good equity against your range. I think the way you played it was fine. The money was going in either way.
  • LoveFishLoveFish IllinoisRed Chipper Posts: 163 ✭✭
    Yup seems like a pretty standard shove on flop when led into. Sometimes you will just be beat here and that’s poker. I think you played it great.
  • CriminalBizzyCriminalBizzy Las VegasRed Chipper Posts: 100 ✭✭
    Lad23der wrote: »
    I don't think villian would lead with trips here. I think he would want to check raise those hands. I think he has some type of combo draw here. ATh, AJh, Ax hearts. Any of those hands have good equity against your range. I think the way you played it was fine. The money was going in either way.

    Do you really think that villain is never leading with sets in this spot? I think some of the time they will donk when they have sets but not always.

    @STstewart are we going to find out how the hand went?
  • yuval_er1yuval_er1 Red Chipper Posts: 15 ✭✭
    Preflop is fine.
    The game is effectively about 2-5 game, so you sit with 60 bb.
    You can make it 55 preflop because of the sallow stacks, but if your 3bet is tighter than it’s should be so sticking with 3x is fine.
    UTG sounds like a big fish. I don’t think he hits the flop too strong. Most paired missed, he has some flush draws and some AQ or A10 suited. Also some KQs QJs J10s and etc.
    HJ is not that good. Because your range is so strong, he shouldn't have a leading range. He can potentially have QQ or 1010 but a better line for him would be check, so UTG will be a squeezed spot after your bet. Plus he’s range is probably unbalanced and heavily leans to strong draws and some TPTK.

    You obviously have to go with your hand. Hope it went well for you.

    Bankroll considerations are irrelevant. Making small minus EV actions to lower the swings is bad idea. Just play 1-2 till you fell safe to go up.
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Las VegasPosts: 5,112 -
    Lad23der wrote: »
    I don't think villian would lead with trips here. I think he would want to check raise those hands. I think he has some type of combo draw here. ATh, AJh, Ax hearts. Any of those hands have good equity against your range. I think the way you played it was fine. The money was going in either way.

    Do you really think that villain is never leading with sets in this spot? I think some of the time they will donk when they have sets but not always.

    @STstewart are we going to find out how the hand went?

    Donking sets is fairly fashionable against players who have studied poker a little and recognize it's often the sign of a weak top pair.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • CriminalBizzyCriminalBizzy Las VegasRed Chipper Posts: 100 ✭✭
    TheGameKat wrote: »
    Lad23der wrote: »
    I don't think villian would lead with trips here. I think he would want to check raise those hands. I think he has some type of combo draw here. ATh, AJh, Ax hearts. Any of those hands have good equity against your range. I think the way you played it was fine. The money was going in either way.

    Do you really think that villain is never leading with sets in this spot? I think some of the time they will donk when they have sets but not always.

    @STstewart are we going to find out how the hand went?

    Donking sets is fairly fashionable against players who have studied poker a little and recognize it's often the sign of a weak top pair.

    I don't have the opportunity to donk my sets very often but when I do, I like to donk about 50% of the time.
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Las VegasPosts: 5,112 -
    While drinking a Dos Equis?
    Moderation In Moderation
  • KeWickKeWick Red Chipper Posts: 11 ✭✭
    Happy to see such a well written hand history. Multiple complete paragraphs of reasoning and multiple useful responses gives me high hopes for this place. Extra credit for the Dos Equis joke. Now if I can just train my mind to not care about not knowing the result.

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