$1/2 Fold to River Raise after Checking the Turn?

sportlasportla Red Chipper Posts: 27 ✭✭
edited June 28 in Live Poker Hands
In the HJ I ($ 600) get JsTs and raise to $ 10. Only the BU ($ 400), the best player at the table, who also plays 5/10 and apparently just didn't get a seat, calls. He's very tight, but he's also blown two minor bluffs. At the beginning of the season I already paid him once on the river when the flush came in and he prays big against my two pair. Flop ($ 23): AJ6r I check, he bet $ 20 and I call. Turn ($ 63): 3. We check both. River ($ 63): 6. My train of thought was that I was afraid of a big bet. So I wanted to play a block bet, $ 25. Now the big raise comes from him to $ 130. In my opinion, considering his possible range, there are few, no hands in it to justify this raise. Still, ok, out of fear, I fold. Quite a big bet for 1/2. He then turns over his T9s bluff with relish. Do you have to call something like that even in the small limit, because you know that the player usually plays larger limits? Or where can I optimize the hand? Check the River? Bigger block bet? As always ... thanks for tips.

Comments

  • ulysses27ulysses27 Red Chipper Posts: 203 ✭✭
    V has used an overbet to polarize his range and he used a sizing that makes calling with a bluff catcher difficult. Your actions put you right on Jx or a small pp. This is where blocker bets can sometimes get you into trouble with savy opponents. But reading through this hand can help make the call. I'm assuming you don't have any Ax hands that you check and v is probably thinking that too. V bets the flop and you call. V has a wide range at this point but yours is condensed. When v checks his range has now narrowed. Any Jx would likely continue betting as the board has not changed and KJ, QJ still want value. There may be some checks with Jx but the point is v is not strong. On the river he polarized by overbetting. Would a J do this? Maybe but even KJ or AJ wants value. So what is v representing? Trip 6s? How did they get there? 76 that bet then checked and improved?

    This is a tough call. But v has more combos of bluffs then value with his bluffs being KQ, K10, 109 which is 18 combos and I belive 6 value combos of 76 and maybe A6 and KJ. Your pot odds put you at 33% so to me this is a call.
  • KeWickKeWick Red Chipper Posts: 11 ✭✭
    I just finished Core, and so the last few lessons are on my mind, especially the Live Reads. We will get to that, but first...

    1. Why did you check the flop? Not comfortable playing out of position or just seeing the ace?

    2. Forget the hand you have for a second and think about the range you represent. Do you think his button call range has more aces than your LJ open range?

    3. If I think about the hands you should be c-betting with (70%?), is JT in that range? If you are using the Core Raise-First-In Ranges, it is close.

    4. Also, I know the board is rainbow, but is either the A or the 6 a Spade? If so, you could pick up a lot of barreling cards on the turn between the Broadway gut shots and a backdoor flush. I think extra little bit of equity could put JTs in the c-bet side with a plan to barrel favorable turns.

    5. Do you agree that checking the flop takes all of the aces out of your range? In fact, do you appreciate just how capped your range is at that point?

    6. I think that checking and calling the flop is deciding (and announcing) that you are in bluff catcher mode. I think you read his turn check correctly but were out of position and not able to do much about it. If you just check here, I think you might feel better trying to call the river. (What Ace is he not betting the turn with? How many 6x hand would he have bet the flop with? I can't think of any.)

    7. I don't know if a bigger blocker bet would have done you any good. It would have to be big enough that we can't fairly call it a blocker bet any more for it to do any good. But the small blocker bet seems to directly fit Miller's advice from the Live Tells section where bets that try to disrupt the flow of the action (small or out of turn or both) are announcements that a player is not willing to play for stacks (and should be bet into).

    Make sense?
  • KeWickKeWick Red Chipper Posts: 11 ✭✭
    Now consider the hand from (what I imagine is) Villain's point of view. Lo-Jack opens, I flatten on the button with T9suited. Blinds fold.

    Pre-Flop: (Pot: 23$). SPR ~15. In position, not PFR.

    Flop:AJ6 rainbow (Let's assume one of villain's suit, say the 6).

    Assuming Lo-Jack PFRs range is : 66+, A9s+, A5s, A4s, KTs+, QTs+, JTs+, T9s, T8s, 98s, AQo+. (99 combos) Lo-Jack has equity of ~83% to our 17% on this flop against our hand.

    Flop action: Lo-Jack (PFR) checks. (!)

    What part of this range would Lo-Jack check? Well, some of it may be check raises, but let's assume he would not check an Ace here or better. (60 combos) Equity: ~78% to 22%.

    We don't have much, but he just checked to us. We have 3 to a straight and 3 to a flush. We can bet here and hope to pick up a barreling turn card. If he gives us credit for the ace he might fold.

    Flop action: We stab for $20. PFR calls. (Pot: $63)

    No check raise means we can take the sets and two pair out of his range if we haven't already. (77% to 23%)

    What part of his range would he check with? Let's make it easy and assume no aces (there is an argument for a weak Ace calling here, but feels stretched since all of his Aces are likely in his c-bet range, even OOP), He would have called 2nd pair or better and some gut shots. Maybe KK-QQ,KTs+,QTs+,JTs (30 combos) Equity: 88% to 12%(!)

    Turn card: 3 rainbow. Lo-Jack checks.

    That is not the turn card we were looking for. We don't have enough equity to justify a second barrel. We could run a pure bluff representing the Ace and maybe get 2nd pair to fold. But that feels stretched. Lo-Jack could be mad about the Ace on the flop and get sticky with KK or QQ. Time to check and cut our losses.

    River: 6 (pairs board). Lo-Jack Bets $25 into Pot $63.

    Lo-Jack blocker bet. Hum. Lo-Jack describes himself as feeling fear. Is he showing fear? Does his bet show that he doesn't want to play for his stack? He has already paid my river bet off once when I had it.

    What is his pain threshold? Is he giving me credit for a weak ace or a mysterious 6? Maybe I can take this down with a bluff.

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