Busting big tourney after losing in the same spot twice

NielsohnNielsohn Red Chipper Posts: 6 ✭✭
edited July 2 in Online Poker Hands
Hi everyone,

I recently played a big tournament for my standards, a 27,50$ buy in with about 4k dollars up top. I was in a really good spot, with a big stack (~50BB) and around 50 people left, when I lost my whole stack within two hands to the same opponent (who I had no reads on), in two nearly identical spots.

Here's how the first hand went:
  • 9 handed table, hero (52BB stack) is UTG+1 and opens to 2BB with :Ts:Td
  • Everyone folds, Big Blind (44BB stack) calls.
  • Flop comes :3c:8d:9s
  • Hero cbets 2.1 BB into a pot of of 5.5BB. Villain calls.
  • Turn: :8s Villain leads for half pot. Hero calls.
  • River: :8c Villain overbets 25BB into a pot of ~20BB
  • Hero calls and loses to :As:8h

I think the river is the only really tough spot in this hand. I ended up calling the overbet, hoping he could be doing this with a 9. However in retrospect this doesn't make much sense, as I can easily have all the overpairs opening from UTG+1. So my opponent is only really repping an 8, but I feel like no one would try to get me to fold a 9 or an overpair here by repping quads. Can we really fold here, considering the only hand we realistically lose to is quads (and possibly pocket 9s)?

A few hands later, with a less healthy stack we run into the following spot:
  • 8 handed table, Hero (18BB stack) UTG and opens :Ac:Tc to 2BB
  • Everyone folds, Big Blind (70 BB stack, same villain as the previous hand) calls.
  • Flop comes: :Ts:5h:8c
  • Hero bets 2.5BB into a pot of 5.5BB. Villain calls.
  • Turn: :8d Villain leads 4BB into pot of 10.5BB. Hero calls
  • River: :9c Villain lead shoves for 10BB effective.
  • Hero tank-calls and loses to :Qh:Jd

I was laughing in this hand when the second 8 came and villain lead, because the spot was so similar to the previous one. On the river I was really close to folding, as I thought villain wouldn't try to bluff me in this spot with how the other hand went. I ended up sigh-calling, thinking that I can't fold TPTK with a roughly 20BB effective stack.

I would love to hear your opinions on these two spots. I don't mind my play in the second hand too much, considering how short I was. In the first spot I really feel like with the line villain took they will show up with quads pretty much every time. Did I get double-coolered or could I have gotten away from either of these?

Thanks in advance!

Niels




Comments

  • MnpokerMnpoker Red Chipper Posts: 199 ✭✭
    You do not mention if this is online or live so I'm going to proceed as it being a online tournament do to the odd buy in. I would bet bigger by making the small preflop, flop, and turn you are allowing people to draw to their hands. The first had was a cooler not much for you to do there but again that small bet sizing is an error at these stakes. The second hand open bigger at least 2.8, on the flop I would say closer to 4BB the 2.5BB is showing weakness which is why V lead out the turn with a gut shot. You should not be calling the turn, if you are certain that you are behind you need to fold but looking at how the hand played you should have no fears and you should be putting in a large check raise. A call should not even be an option. On the river what do you beat other than a bluff? Played as played the river is a clear fold.
  • NielsohnNielsohn Red Chipper Posts: 6 ✭✭
    Hi Mnpoker, thanks for your reply! This thread is called "online poker hands" which is why I didn't mention it was online. I like your idea of just check/raising the turn in the second hand. I actually remember briefly considering the check-shove, but the fact that last time that second 8 came and the opponent lead out he had it, made me play a bit scared in this spot I guess. It was just confusing being in such similar spots back to back lol.

    Also interesting that you would go bigger on the flop. I tend to cbet the flop smallish to keep in worse hands, but I guess both of these hands need some protection.

    Thanks again for your opinion!

  • NielsohnNielsohn Red Chipper Posts: 6 ✭✭
    *I meant shoving over his lead-out in my last reply, not check/shoving
  • MnpokerMnpoker Red Chipper Posts: 199 ✭✭
    I missed that this was under online and not under Tournaments
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Las VegasPosts: 4,960 -
    edited July 4
    It seems Mnpoker and I adopt different sizing conventions. I lean towards smaller sizings, particularly online. That said, I have a strong dislike of a min-raise open, particularly at the depth of the first hand.

    In the first hand, I like your c-bet sizing. And you probably have to call turn. But in a tournament I think you have to fold river, absent of a bluffy read. It may be a 9, but equally players like to trap with JJ-AA pre.

    Second hand, you're much shallower so it may be impossible to get away from top pair. Note that at 18bb you're really looking for a spot to 3-bet jam over an open. UTG I don't hate folding pre.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • DenisNSmithDenisNSmith Red Chipper Posts: 19 ✭✭
    Again, you can't call there. It's easy to think that bluffers love that board, but you have to fold. Because you are dead to so many hands.
  • DenisNSmithDenisNSmith Red Chipper Posts: 19 ✭✭
    edited July 8
    I'd question your original raise too. I know it doesn't go too well for TT UTG, so you need to not min-raise that? If you get called, you have a much better idea what is in their hand. You lost more than 4BB instead of risking 4, and taking the nasty hands out?

    Go for 4+BB UTG with TT
  • DenisNSmithDenisNSmith Red Chipper Posts: 19 ✭✭
    And ram on the flop.
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Las VegasPosts: 4,960 -
    I'd question your original raise too. I know it doesn't go too well for TT UTG, so you need to not min-raise that? If you get called, you have a much better idea what is in their hand. You lost more than 4BB instead of risking 4, and taking the nasty hands out?

    Go for 4+BB UTG with TT

    The 4bb+ open in MTTs died a natural death about 15 years ago. It's massively inefficient at this depth.
    Moderation In Moderation
  • MnpokerMnpoker Red Chipper Posts: 199 ✭✭
    I agree with Kat a 4 BB open preflop is much too big. I still like the 2.8 BB. I find that people will call the 2 BB very light but tighten up with a 3 BB ish type bump. I personally prefer to take TT heads up and am looking to thin the table v’s trying to build the pot.

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