Awkward stack size, bad hand history, and worse play

rec_playerrec_player Red Chipper Posts: 46
edited August 2015 in Live Poker Hands
2/5 at local card room. I have roughly $400. Pre-flop action is a little fuzzy.

I'm in the CO, I think 3 limpers. I limp with :Qd:Jc
(I know, NO LIMPING, but the table was limpy, and I didn't feel like the button or SB were "punish the limper" types, if they raise they have a hand. I don't remember, but the button and SB probably limped, and the BB checked. So between 5-7 players take the flop.

Flop: 589 two hearts

UTG+1 leads for $20 - fairly tight aggressive
UTG+2 calls - very LAG

Both villains have $1000+

folds to me, I call, I've got a gutshot and two overs (in retrospect I only have 3 nut outs, and maybe 4 clean overs - and they may not even be outs) - everyone else folds

Here is where I imagine the :Ts peeling on the turn.

Turn: :Td (I'm disappointed, because while I still hit one of my 3 outs, its not the one I was willing to the top of the deck)

utg+1 bets $75
utg+2 calls

I'm pretty sure one of these villains has a draw and one has like a :9? (maybe 2 pair)

My stack size is so weird here ($375), I don't know how much to bet.
- I don't feel I can call here
- If I raise $100, there will be 100 + 75x3 + 20x3 + 30ish = 400ish in the pot and $100 to call, ie exact correct odds for flush draws to call
- if I raise $200, I only have $100 behind
- Or I can shove

Comments

  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper Posts: 4,308 ✭✭✭✭✭
    rec_player wrote:
    (I know, NO LIMPING, but the table was limpy, and I didn't feel like the button or SB were "punish the limper" types, if they raise they have a hand. I don't remember, but the button and SB probably limped, and the BB checked. So between 5-7 players take the flop.

    So if everyone's doing it, it's okay? If they're not going iso, why are you not? (limping actually isn't bad at all, but ask yourself why you might take control of the hand and buy the button with a raise)

    Anyway, you should ideally move all in because the river will be unplayable, as you have identified. If you don't get called it's because you are perceived to have no bluffing range or their hands were too weak. You can't solve either problem in the moment. Raising to $200, as you suggest, is a little silly.
  • BotswanaNickBotswanaNick Red Chipper Posts: 696 ✭✭✭
    I don't think you are giving enough strength to Villain 1's range. When a TAG player bets almost full pot on a straightening turn into 2 players that called a big flop bet, they have a big hand (or a big draw). I think his range has lots of straights, sets, and 2 pair (89/9T), with JT probably the bottom of his value range.

    If you think villain will call a shove with 2 pair, then its an easy shove. I would be worried that a nitty villain could find a fold here from a big shove in this spot, so my first thought was to advocate a smaller, 'silly' raise. But thinking about it more, I think shoving is the maximum EV play. I don't think many villains will have the discipline to fold sets (nor should they unless you have no bluffing range), and I am hopeful we might get a crying call from T9 or a combo draw.
  • rec_playerrec_player Red Chipper Posts: 46
    I bet $200. i prob should have shoved (maybe it looks more bluffy)

    villain 1 folded almost immediately

    villain 2 agonized for a while, showed me :Ah:7h - for flush and open ender draws - and said "if you had more money behind, I'd call" and folded

    Although I kinda wish I'd just called, then willed the :As to the top of the deck.

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