3 bet pot with nut flush draw

SullySully Red Chipper Posts: 780 ✭✭✭
edited August 2015 in Live Poker Hands
1-2 live

Hero- $400
Villain- $400 older gentleman. Played fairly straight forward. Had hit some big hands in big pots. I had recently seen 2 showdowns from his Utg and UTG+1 opens of :Ah:Tc and :3s:3h. Both hands were checked down all way to showdown for relatively small pots

I decided I would open my 3 betting range vs villain even if he was in EP.

villain UTG+1 opens $12
Hero on BU raises to $35 with :Ah:6h
villain calls
pot $73

flop: :Js:Th:5h
villain checks
Hero bets $35
villain raises to $75 - at this point I really believe villain hit set. He had never shown this type of aggression in the 5 hours we played so far. I do not believe I have FE
Hero calls
pot $223

turn :2c
villain bets $125 with $165 behind
Hero folds

Afterwards I thought maybe I should call as implied odds get me 4-1 which is not there but kind of close. He probably puts me on a big pair and might shove any river card but an :A? or :K? . If he checks he probably has to call a shove by me even if heart comes. Call turn?

Should I cbet flop? I had initiative but JJ and TT are probably squarely in his 3bet calling range.

My plan was to open up 3 bet range. We were at 200bb. This was going to include some connectors and Axs hands. Good idea?

All thoughts appreciated

Comments

  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper Posts: 4,308 ✭✭✭✭✭
    1. I see why you chose to 3 bet him, but it's still not the greatest spot to do so. A10 and 33 are clearly the bottom of an older gentleman's opening range, so you can't just throw out position because you saw some non-premiums. Discretion is the better part of valor.

    2. Then you choose a small, inducement to call, sizing.

    I think you need to ask yourself why you are doing what you are doing and what you want to accomplish. From the outside, it looks like your purpose is ensure a big pot with a low spr while playing with maybe 40% equity against a wide but reasonable EP opening range.
  • theClubbertheClubber Red Chipper Posts: 167 ✭✭
    Personally, I don't mind the 3-bet. It would be better with a wheel card, but your blocker helps. You don't have great equity against his calling range, but you will have position and some valuable bluff opportunities.

    While he only has to fold 1/3 of the time for your c-bet to be profitable, it's a flop that's likely to connect with his range. He probably doesn't fold enough for the c-bet to work. I'd hate to fold a nut flush draw to a check-raise. I'd take the free card. He's very likely to reveal how strong his hand is on the turn. A delayed c-bet seems more profitable in this spot.
  • SullySully Red Chipper Posts: 780 ✭✭✭
    After playing around with Equilab, I think villain does fold enough if he has AK, AQ and all pairs except AA on a 1/2 pot cbet. Even calling preflop with pairs 22-KK means he is probably folding 65% of the time to the cbet. Adding more hands only makes it better IMO.

    As to what I trying to accomplish, that is the question. I like Brokos ideas that I am trying to win the pot immediately and/or have access to villain's entire stack for value and bluffs

    I'm pretty sure this guy hit his 12% set. The other 88% of time I think I have a good shot at the pot

    I would never mess with older players who open UTG (I am one myself BTW) as I put them on incredibly tight ranges. His seemed more reasonable

    Wheel cards are better. I'm trying to work through 3-bet pots as I want to do more. I am trying to find the right ranges, villains and position with deeper stacks
  • Steve007Steve007 Red Chipper Posts: 363 ✭✭✭
    If he raises with all his pocket pairs in EP (which I'm sure he does if 33 is in his range) then he isn't folding to your 3-bet. On the other hand, many of the pairs are more likely to fold on the flop to c-bets.

    It's important to remember that if he has a set, then the :Jh and :2h gives you a flush but improves him to a boat on the river, so you would have 7 outs instead of 9 outs on the turn. And I'm sure he does have a set as he almost certainly doesn't play JT this way. The only other hands I could see are AA (which we have a blocker to) and KK but he could 4-bet us PF with those. QQ is a possibility as well (and he is less likely to 4-bet that PF). But then again if he has QQ or even KK he could easily fear you have aces and slow down.

    If he only has sets your equity is about 15.9%. If he has hands like AA, KK and QQ then it goes up to around 20%-21% but that's the best case scenario and it's really optimistic so I would put your equity at lower than that.

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