Live $10-$20, maximizing value versus cocky player

Doug HullDoug Hull RCP Coach Posts: 1,784 -
edited July 2014 in Live Poker Hands
http://www.sharemypair.com/smpweb/smpvi ... ed_id/7474

Tourney backer was enjoying himself. Felt like The Man, putting five guys into tourneys at the table between hands, pulling out a huge gangster roll and flashing it around.

I had been playing snug. By playing coy I got a raise and barrel out of him. Had I bet out on flop he folds. By checking back I am repping a pair like KK playing scared.

I rarely advocate a slowplay like this, but I got him to bluff-own himself pretty well. Do you have similar situations where you can own a player with a slowplay?
Co-founder Red Chip Poker,
Author Poker Plays You Can Use
Author Poker Workbook for Math Geeks

Comments

  • SplitSuitSplitSuit RCP Coach Posts: 4,032 -
    Was the plan to check/call down (when you checked the flop)?
  • Doug HullDoug Hull RCP Coach Posts: 1,784 -
    The plan was to play slow on the flop, bet small on turn then check river hoping he would bluff at it. I knew he would attack weakness. As we see, I was right. Him bluff raising and barreling was actually an unexpected bonus.

    I am sure there is a line and board run out where I fold, but I am not sure what it could have been since he basically agro every chance after flop. Actually trying to think about it I do not think I ever fold versus this Villain in this spot. There are too many triple barrels in his range.

    In the end he turbo mucked when I called the river. I owned him and he knows he got played.
    Co-founder Red Chip Poker,
    Author Poker Plays You Can Use
    Author Poker Workbook for Math Geeks
  • WeyWey Red Chipper Posts: 19
    What do you think he bluff raised with? Complete air? If he's loose pre-flop, maybe he had some sort of open-ended, T8xx, then when he missed, thought it a good time to barrel-off. If you had KK's, and checked the flop (which is sometimes recommended in some books), do you also call the turn raise/river barrel? Because it sounds like TT's or even a naked 9 would have been the nuts against this guys hand.
  • Doug HullDoug Hull RCP Coach Posts: 1,784 -
    I have no idea what he held. I think it was mostly ATC trying to "push the weak tight guy" (me) off KK or QQ. The way he insta-mucked I think complete air makes sense.

    KK is almost that same hand as AQ on this board. I likely just check-call all the way down with KK though. I skip the turn bet. My turn bet was to emulate a weak tight player's line with KK.

    I just do not like betting out middle strength hands. KK would be middle strength and bloats the pot in a spot where I do not feel good when called. Lots of players bet out KK here and hate it when they are called or raised. If you bet for value and cringe when you get called, are you sure it was a value bet? Sounds more like a bluff to me. This is why I check down KK in this spot.

    Villain was smart enough to know many guys take my line with KK and hate getting raised and barreled. It was a smart play against a different guy. He mistook me for that guy.
    Co-founder Red Chip Poker,
    Author Poker Plays You Can Use
    Author Poker Workbook for Math Geeks
  • WeyWey Red Chipper Posts: 19
    : ) "He mistook me for that guy" ha, I like this line!
  • ChipTraderChipTrader Red Chipper Posts: 178
    Hey Doug,

    I love your book btw but it sounds like you got a little emotional against this guy .. thats not very professional of you lol
  • Doug HullDoug Hull RCP Coach Posts: 1,784 -
    Is it emotional, or playing the player? I got him to raise and barrel with nothing. Did I enjoy out playing him, yes? Did I do the right thing? Yes.
    Co-founder Red Chip Poker,
    Author Poker Plays You Can Use
    Author Poker Workbook for Math Geeks
  • ChipTraderChipTrader Red Chipper Posts: 178
    hmmmmm I'm not sure your being completely honest about that ???

    I don't mean to assume but the post came across as rather condescending towards a guy that is just being a baller. Did you honestly study his play first or was it his image that you assumed was a lagtard ?

    I mean either way you played it perfectly against that Villian but the mood of this post disturbed me a little maybe because his personality is polar opposite of yours and it sounded like you were emotional to me. ;)
  • nemoroninnemoronin Red Chipper Posts: 45
    ChipTrader wrote:
    hmmmmm I'm not sure your being completely honest about that ???

    I don't mean to assume but the post came across as rather condescending towards a guy that is just being a baller. Did you honestly study his play first or was it his image that you assumed was a lagtard ?

    I mean either way you played it perfectly against that Villian but the mood of this post disturbed me a little maybe because his personality is polar opposite of yours and it sounded like you were emotional to me. ;)

    IDK, I'd think Doug would just as likely be the baller putting people into tournaments. :D
  • Christian SotoChristian Soto RCP Coach Posts: 2,195 ✭✭✭✭
    In Doug's defense, I make stereotypical assumptions all the time. Old, young, hoodies, all help me make some form of assumption which may change my chosen line sometimes. If I have no read, I still make the assumption that the player is the average skill level of whichever player pool I am in.
  • persuadeopersuadeo Red Chipper, Table Captain Posts: 4,095 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I see this hand as extremely, perhaps perfectly well played; and as an aside, it sounds like some people are little confused by the word "emotional." If you are not making reads based on all available information, which is not the same as an emotional or even instinctive decision, you are missing out on a baffling amount of the poker battle. Emotional decisions can be described as tilt; the OP's decision here was the opposite, and rather nastily calculated, taking advantage of the backer's mood of largesse, grandiosity and his natural urge to rise to the occasion with a nice bluff he probably would have shown if it worked.

    Anyway, the OP asked a question, and the answer is yes. Slowplay is an extremely important and underrated part of my $5 blind scene.
  • Doug HullDoug Hull RCP Coach Posts: 1,784 -
    persuadeo wrote:
    I see this hand as extremely, perhaps perfectly well played; and as an aside, it sounds like some people are little confused by the word "emotional."
    ...snip...
    Emotional decisions can be described as tilt; the OP's decision here was the opposite, and rather nastily calculated, taking advantage of the backer's mood of largesse, grandiosity and his natural urge to rise to the occasion with a nice bluff he probably would have shown if it worked.

    This response made my day.

    To be clear, the backer was a likable guy. I would have gladly bought him a beer after the game.

    His move was excellent and would have been very profitable against the player he thought I was. Hell, I make his move in that spot from time to time- which is why I recognized the spot and was able to level him.
    Co-founder Red Chip Poker,
    Author Poker Plays You Can Use
    Author Poker Workbook for Math Geeks

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