Flatting with monsters?

neilv93neilv93 Red Chipper Posts: 68 ✭✭
edited October 2015 in Live Poker Hands
In MTT's, what would be the circumstances or situation where you would consider flatting with aces or kings? Against what type of opponent? With what sort of stack size? I pretty much adopt the mentality of ALWAYS clicking it back with these hands and feel like I am probably missing excellent opportunities to slow play but I'm none the wiser as to where and when.

Comments

  • Rello242Rello242 Red Chipper Posts: 595 ✭✭
    Before you read what i say please do note that in general its best to play these hands straight forward. Flatting can invite unwanted variance.


    The typical situation in general is deep stack (or if your the big stack vs another big stack) when you are faced with a 3bet and 4betting only makes it super easy for him to play against you.

    Some other situations would be if someone folds to 3bet like 90% of the times or some crazy number (make sure you have the right sample size to determine this) where its easy to just 3bet light and call with big hands.
    -Rello

    "Its better to give than to receive, so bet more and call less"
    Check out my HUSNG Graph: Chips-Results
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  • tagliustaglius Red Chipper Posts: 290 ✭✭
    SPR is a great tool here. If flatting a villain with AA leaves you heads up with an SPR of 4 or less, then it puts a ton of pressure on him to shove the flop with any piece, and of course you're (almost) never folding.

    Example: blinds 100-200, villain with 2000 bets 500, folds to you (who covers) in the BB with AA. You flat. Pot is 1000, he has 1500 left. He's shoving almost everything with a 1.5 SPR. Check to him and never fold.

    (Note: example a bit contrived b/c villain made a standard raise when he started with 10BB, but still shows how SPR can be used).
  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 5,007 ✭✭✭✭✭
    As rello said, I've seen even some pros make disastrous slowplays with AA. With KK I'm much less likely to slowplay, just because in raised hands an ace is often in someone's hand and if they hit one, at least they're going to pay dearly to do so. With AA, I'm sometimes willing to play the hand out at the current going rate.
  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 5,007 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You might think that against a short stack you should always slowplay, but that's not true either. Let's say blinds are $100/200 and your opponent opens to $600 from his starting stack of $1,800. Well you could say this isn't a very good move, but players do this all the time. Let's say his hand is :Ts:9s . If you just call with :Ah:Ad and the flop is :Qc:4h:4c, you're really not going to get any more money out of him. But if you reraise to $1,800 preflop he might call because he has reasonable equity against hands like :Ad:Kh or :8h:8d, and getting better than 2:1 he's correct to call (because he doesn't know you have AA and even if he did it's still close to correct to make the call). You're probably somewhat ambivalent about the call but you'd prefer he calls, but he's going to whiff a lot of flops and might not get any money after that unless he bluffs.
  • FilthyCasualFilthyCasual Red Chipper Posts: 871 ✭✭✭
    With Rello242, personally I don't usually flat more that 5% of the time with these(best guess is below it, but 1/20 doesn't sound too far off).... however...

    EP with an active field behind me, I've flatted just to raise and iso or take it down. I do like to limp EP in situations where I think I can get a lot of other limpers to join, and it's important to have a hand that can fire back if someone attacks the limpers. Definitely helps when you have someone you can rely on the raise in LP.

    If it's MP that raises, I don't mind a second flat. Late position, I'm generally more eager to just represent strength and raise, instead of calling and inviting a smorgasbord of pot odds and players to the flop.

    Think it was Duhamel that I saw doing this with the live WSOP coverage and thought, "That makes sense if you're going to limp EP with SC's, you should have some monsters in that limp range as well".
  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 5,007 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If I'm heads up against a pretty good player, let's say I raise and he reraises, then sometimes I'll just call. That adds a lot of deception to your hand I think. It also gives you pretty good information about his hand, and this is usually overpair vs. underpair, which is pretty easy to play.

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