What mistakes did my opponents make?

AcesaladAcesalad Red Chipper Posts: 240 ✭✭
edited October 2015 in Live Poker Hands
Playing in $1/$2 NLHE cash game. This is a home so I am familiar with the players. Still, I always hear you have to figure out what mistakes my opponents are making and then capitalize on them.. My problem is identifying the mistakes. I am going to post a hand that two of my opponents played and I would like you all to identify the mistakes they make and let me know how you would capitilize on them in he future. I know it's only one hand but maybe along with my description of the players you can.

Villain1 is a bad LAG, bordering on a maniac. He raises or calls raises with any A and will go all in if he hits the A. He will call raises with low suited unconnected cards and go all in and the flop if he hits a flush draw. He almost always leaves early because he loses.

Villain2 is a solid player, probably one of the best at the table. His only weaknesses I see are he limps or calls limos a lot and therefore plays a wide range.

In this game the straddle is $5, not 2 times the big blind.

Villain1 is UTG and straddles for $5.
It folds to Villain2 who min raises to $10.
It folds back to Villain1 who calls. Pot is $23
Flop :5s:7c:8d
Villain1 bets $6, Villain2 calls. Pot is $35
Turn is :3c
Villain1 bets $6 again, Villain2 calls Pot is $47
River is :8s
Both players check
Villain1 shows :As:Qs
Villain2 shows :4d:4c

So, what mistakes were made?

Comments

  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Las VegasPosts: 4,877 -
    Good grief
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  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Las VegasPosts: 4,877 -
    Okay.

    Villain 1 straddles UTG. That's usually a mistake, but there may be meta-game considerations in a home game.

    Villain 2 min-raises. I don't know why. Maybe he was watching the Mets game and didn't notice the straddle was on.

    Flop. Villain 1 donk leads 6 into 23. I have no idea what this is supposed to accomplish.

    On the turn Villain 1 leads for 6 into 35. Whatever this is supposed to be doing, it is doing it worse than on the flop.

    Villain 2's post-flop play is rendered reasonable by the bizarre bet-sizing from Villain 1. However, I'd probably bet the end in Villain 2's position to fold out stray 5s and 7s assuming Villain 1 has a fold button.

    From this particular hand I wouldn't characterize Villain 1 as a LAG/maniac and we don't learn a lot about Villain 2 until we figure out if he was watching the Mets game.
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  • AcesaladAcesalad Red Chipper Posts: 240 ✭✭
    Good Call, We are in New York and he is a Met fan with a seat directly facing the TV. All of play in this game goes like this though. that is why I have trouble adapting the strategies I learn here to this game. These players don't always raise 2/3 the pot when they have a good hand. They will often through a $25 bet on the flop into an $80 pot. Then when called will bet another $25 on the turn. I have a lot of trouble using bet sizing to determine their holdings.
  • Skors3Skors3 Red Chipper Posts: 669 ✭✭✭
    Good grief

    Maybe I just had a long day at work. But I lost my sh*t when I read this. Priceless.

    Also, I'd like to add that Villain 2 probably should have re-popped the flop bet. However, the unusual bet size is very, well, unusual. Do either of these guys play elsewhere? Or just in this home game?
  • TheGameKatTheGameKat Las VegasPosts: 4,877 -
    Acesalad wrote:
    Good Call, We are in New York and he is a Met fan with a seat directly facing the TV. All of play in this game goes like this though. that is why I have trouble adapting the strategies I learn here to this game. These players don't always raise 2/3 the pot when they have a good hand. They will often through a $25 bet on the flop into an $80 pot. Then when called will bet another $25 on the turn. I have a lot of trouble using bet sizing to determine their holdings.

    One of the interesting things about homes games is that with the same people playing together a lot you get leveling wars and idiosyncrasies that are hard to interpret from the outside. My guess, though, is that bet-sizing tells will be there. And if they aren't, your best approach may be to develop an unexploitable GTO-like strategy.

    Re: the Mets read, I have an unfair advantage in poker. My grandmother was a fortune-teller and passed on The Gift.
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  • Rello242Rello242 Red Chipper Posts: 595 ✭✭
    Here is a good question, what did they do right? Man, imagine if online poker was like this :(
    -Rello

    "Its better to give than to receive, so bet more and call less"
    Check out my HUSNG Graph: Chips-Results
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  • FilthyCasualFilthyCasual Red Chipper Posts: 871 ✭✭✭
    With V one, I think the largest opportunity is to attack the weak leads. Sure, we all know it's a small sample size, but if they lead small, raise just forget about your cards and raise. Especially given the description that they attack large when they get a relative piece, all this weak lead is doing is 'asking' v2 not to raise.

    If he is the biggest fish at the game, I would really focus on him first and foremost. Bet patterns, card apex timing, default chair 'height' and work your way out. I wouldn't be opposed to opening my range a bit against this kind of V for the implied odds. He's giving his money to someone at the table in the first hour or so, might as well be you.
  • AcesaladAcesalad Red Chipper Posts: 240 ✭✭
    Do either of these guys play elsewhere? Or just in this home game?

    We are 3 hours from the nearest casino so it's mostly home games for all of us. Villain2 plays in a couple of other non hold 'em games and he goes to AC about every other month and plays tournaments and cash games at the Borgata.
  • AcesaladAcesalad Red Chipper Posts: 240 ✭✭
    If he is the biggest fish at the game, I would really focus on him first and foremost. Bet patterns, card apex timing, default chair 'height' and work your way out. I wouldn't be opposed to opening my range a bit against this kind of V for the implied odds. He's giving his money to someone at the table in the first hour or so, might as well be you.

    Can you elaborate on what card apex timing, default chair 'height' and what you mean by work your way out?

    Your right about him giving away his money in the first hour. I have been following the ranges recommended in the course and it has me playing very few hands lately. I do feel I should get in against him more.
  • jeffncjeffnc Red Chipper Posts: 5,007 ✭✭✭✭✭
    TheGameKat wrote:
    One of the interesting things about homes games is that with the same people playing together a lot you get leveling wars and idiosyncrasies that are hard to interpret from the outside.

    That's definitely true. But sometimes it really doesn't matter. Bad play is bad play, regardless of what "leveling" is going on. Now when really solid players do goofy things to each other, a lot of it either has to do with strange bluffing, or they're just trying not to play big pots with each other - they have a spoken or unspoken understanding.

    In this case, they players are simply betting too small. If they bet small when they have nothing, then it's an easy bet sizing tell. If they bet small all the time, then simply ratchet up the action when you have a hand, and enjoy the awesome pot odds when you're drawing. (It's always fun to hear someone complain about you paying to hit a gutshot, when they gave you 15:1.)
  • Morgan_BMorgan_B Red Chipper Posts: 262 ✭✭
    Why straddle if you're not going to re-raise AQs? If this guy ever re-raises his straddle it's a real hand. I'd say he's loose passive. If the same guy ever donks into you with a small bet I'd raise big with :atc1 :atc2
  • FilthyCasualFilthyCasual Red Chipper Posts: 871 ✭✭✭
    Card apex would be how long they look at their hole cards. 1-1.5 is 'norm', where generally speaking if they have they are looking at their cards longer preflop they are mulling over a marginal call/raise. Some V's default apex might be 2 or 3 seconds, but most people only look at their cards initially for this or longer if it's marginal call pre.

    Easiest way I categorize chair height are shoulders in comparison to the table. Buttons on a button up shirt, breast pocket, find characteristics on their clothing attire in comparison to the table or background. It can fluctuate throughout a session, but taking a mental snapshot before the cards are dealt every so often.

    Working your way out is more about expanding from focusing on centermass (table height). Maybe hand position is a key for this player, chip placement, how close he puts his cards to his own body, etc.

    I'll gladly take a dip in card equity to be involved with who I percieve as the weaker players. If a player is known to fold to easily or call to light, I want to be in the pot with them. As the wise philosopher Rollins stated, "Gimme gimme gimme"
  • AcesaladAcesalad Red Chipper Posts: 240 ✭✭
    Sounds like some great analysis. You've all given me a lot to think about. Thanks everyone!
  • SixthStreetSixthStreet Red Chipper Posts: 260 ✭✭
    My home games same way & I don't understand bet sizing mentality they have, but definitely tells on preflop and post flop sizing. Huge preflop is JJ or AA they all complain about getting them beat. Same pre flop best size used all way through hand. Most time middle pair or draw and as blocker bet to preflop raiser.
  • mbehr1983mbehr1983 Red Chipper Posts: 635 ✭✭✭
    Common theme here with home games. Mine plays the same then if you are aggressive they start saying man you raise a lot. The bet sizing is hard to decipher. My game is passive I will raise and dudes will call with QQ+ and then bet small all the way down. This to me is go ahead and beat my monster and I wouldn't loose to much with then if it wins a win a little. I have to remember that if I raise their small bets and they Reraise they probably have a real hand

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